Quackery
Theology

God, Death, Existence and Time

Spirit Soul Has No DeathMy existence is predicated upon consciousness, referred to in metaphysical circles as “the soul” — a massless, formless living force, a “spirit.” I am not a product of my physical manifestation. I am not a machine, defined by neurons and synapses and the complexities of the human brain. We can map out our brains and determine which parts are involved with which functions, but our brain does not define us, it merely facilitates us by translating our CODEC. Our body is a machine, our brain a complex CPU. And I am the software, the “ghost in the machine.”

The point at which mass becomes less than the smallest particle, the quark, matter loses locality (becoming undefined by physical laws as we currently understand them). Undetectable, immeasurable, timeless, and as far as we can understand, non-existent. Such is the nature of the “spirit.”

God as spirit, in this understanding, is “non-existent” and His domain, “non-existence.” The paradox of a non-existent being existing in a non-existent plane of existence is, in fact, how the Bible describes God. He does not exist in any concept we have of “existence.” And the only time He ever “existed,” he plugged himself into the body of what we know as Jesus Christ, though since he was human, was no longer God. And yet he was. He was limited and fallible like us, and yet he wasn’t. So the only way we can see him as God, is when he is not appearing to us as God, since God is formless and immeasurable.

If God has always existed, what was He doing before He created the universe? Since time did not (and still doesn’t) exist, God did not have time to do anything “before” time. This is rather difficult to grasp.

The Theory of Relativity does not apply to a world in which time is non-existent. When we consider the psychological aspects of time, we are again dealing with the relativity, but relativity as experienced, rather than as measured. We are still dealing with time, but not with eternity. There is neither measured nor experienced relativity of time in a purely spiritual world, because time belongs to the physical order.

It can be argued that in experience, the passage of time could be so rapid as to be virtually eclipsed. It would appear that you could experience timelessness within the natural order. This is confusing because it implies that if a thing is small enough, it is nothing at all. This is analogous to saying that there is no fundamental between something and nothing; or, to use a more familiar idea at the other end of the scale, that infinity is merely a very, very large number. However, infinity differs from a very large number for the important reason that if you subtract one from a very large number (no matter how large it is), you have one less: if you subtract one from infinity, you still have infinity.

Time stands in the same relation to eternity, in one sense, as a large number does to infinity. There is a sense in which infinity includes a very large number, yet it is quite fundamentally different and independent of it. And by analogy, eternity includes time and yet is fundamentally something other. The reduction of time until it gets smaller and smaller is still not eternity; nor do we reach eternity by an extension of time to great length. There is no direct pathway between time and eternity: they are different categories of experiences.

The fundamental point is when we step out of time, we step into eternity, and while we cannot be in them both at once, God, according to the Bible, is able to so. Some passages come to mind immediately in support of the view that God lives outside the ordinary limitations of time as we experience it. For example, “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). If we make the period before Abraham to be represented by the letter A, Abraham’s time by the letter B, and the time of speaking by the letter C, we have the three periods A, B, C amalgamated as one and the tenses confused as though C preceded A. What we might have expected to find was, “Before Abraham was, I was” — which would have satisfied our normal sense of time.

eternityChrist took Abraham’s time as the pivot and spoke of two periods balanced on either side, namely, the ages which preceded Abraham, and all that followed (including the present). He then deliberately picked up the present and put it back before Abraham, but still referred to that distant period in the present tense. Though it was centuries ago, to Christ it was “now.” Even if He was here today, He would still refer to the time before Abraham as the “present” time. Why? Because He is God, and to God there is no passage of time, but all is “present.” The reaction of the Jewish authorities to His statement suggests that in some strange way they had understood what He meant. The mystery of God’s name, as revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:13,14 “the One who is existing always in the present” is unlocked here.

When a Christian dies, from this understanding, they pass from this realm of time and space into another realm of pure spirit, out of time as we experience it into a state of timelessness, the ever-present of God‘s domain. As they make this passage, every event in the future passes instantly before them, completed instantaneously. As each of us passes, we therefore experience no death nor the slightest pause in consciousness, nor even any sense of departure from those who remain.

The experience would be the same for everyone. All history, all intervening time between death and the end of time, is suddenly annihilated so that each person from the very first to the very last, is just dying and arriving in a single instant together, without precedence and without the slightest consciousness of delay. Scripture twice affirms, observing events from our point of view, that no man has yet ascended into heaven (John 3:13), not even David (Acts 2:34). And yet, when we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord in eternity. David is not there yet, nor any others, because we are not there.

Ultimately, we will dwell in a “new heaven and a new earth,” so perhaps time will always be with us thenceforth. But we shall experience time not as limitation, but as opportunity. Time will not be continually running out as it is now; unlimited time for unlimited adventure.

This is, of course, purely hypothetical, and just a thought. Thanks for reading.

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About Quackzalcoatl

Phoneticist, Palindrologist, and freelance Sharknadologist. Inventor. Ruler of 2-acre lakes and small streams.

Discussion

18 thoughts on “God, Death, Existence and Time

  1. Extremely well thought-through, supremely well articulated.

    A question: God being Jesus, Jesus being god, should Jesus/god have known history?

    Posted by john zande | 15 November, 2013, 9:57 am
    • Hmmm… If I follow the reasoning that Jesus “the man” was a mechanical body infused with the spirit of God, then His cognitive mind would be aware of history, all of it (including “unfinished history”). Here is where it gets tricky. He refers to himself as the “Son of God” as well as the “Son of man.” Is this a genetic reference, as in God made a baby with Mary and Jesus is the offspring? I don’t think so. The “Rod of God” is never mentioned in Scripture. God being spirit and all, I’m pretty sure He wasn’t supplying any bio-matter. I think “conceived of the Holy Spirit,” as it were, might refer to God as Spirit (operating in space-time) combining Mary and Joseph’s genetic spunk (as we do in test tubes) and implanting in Mary unawares (the first roofie?). Otherwise, why mention their genealogies?

      Anyhoo, my point is, Jesus the man is 100% human, but occupied by the spirit of God. So it begs the question, when we come into the world, we must go through the learning process, body and soul, since we’ve never had the luxury of consciously pre-existing. Though, there would seem to be exceptions, like Mozart (who seems to have been born a master musician from day one), and several other inexplicable prodigies. But God’s soul would be all-knowing. Did Jesus come out of the womb and immediately start talking? We have no mention of this, only that at twelve he blew the minds of all the Hebrew scholars.

      Biologically, our brains need time to develop in order to process and store information. So maybe it took a few years to finish downloading all the information? And how much can our brains hold at one time?

      I wonder if maybe his knowledge was limited to his experiences just as any other person. And maybe his supernatural knowledge came to him through the Holy Spirit. He sent himself to die, but wouldn’t figure this out until He told himself after he was old enough to fully understand? He was his own son and father, spiritually, and his own supernatural guide. He is “watching” himself from eternity at the same time he is living on earth as Jesus and guiding himself as the Holy Spirit.

      So, was all his information on a need-to-know, task-specific basis, as though the Spirit is whispering in his ear? Either way, I would guess that anything he mentioned about history would be true. But then again, Jesus often talked in parables and riddles and was difficult to always understand, which is why we still debate his words two thousand years later. Sorry to give you a post-length answer, but this stuff gets complicated. Taking it seriously and trying to consider the ramifications is not as simple as it might seem.

      As always, thanks for your comments, Professor.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 15 November, 2013, 10:54 am
      • Hang on, its not over yet.

        Are you allowing, therefore, for Jesus to get history wrong? To make a historical statement which he clearly thought was accurate but which wasn’t?

        Posted by john zande | 15 November, 2013, 10:59 am
        • I wouldn’t think he could be wrong about history, no. If he made an inaccurate statement, I would want to examine exactly what was said, how he said it, what the context is, and the likelihood that the inaccuracy exists. Anytime there seems to be a contradiction or paradox, there’s something to be gained from digging as much into it as possible to figure it out.

          Also, though, consider who he’s talking to. If he tells them a different history than what tradition tells them, they might not have listened to anything else he said. I mean, how receptive would you be if someone came up to you and told you everything you’ve been told about history from all accredited experts is wrong?? Not saying that was the case, but it’s a thought.

          Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 15 November, 2013, 11:12 am
  2. Thanks for another very good read Quack. Perspective is important for understanding, and a perspective outside of time/space is probably the only way that time/space can truly be understood. The paradox is that even though the body sleeps in death without any awareness, the spirit and soul are receiving the greatest illumination possible.

    Posted by Marc | 15 November, 2013, 10:43 am
    • Thanks Marc, I appreciate your comments.

      Yeah, we have so many fears and apprehensions about what awaits us on the other side and how the experience might be. No one has ever come back to confirm anything, even though there are near-death incidents which claim to have “come back from the other side.” Death is pretty much an all or nothing experience, so almost dying doesn’t count. But if I’m right and this is how it’ll go from our perspective, then it’s not going to be so bad.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 15 November, 2013, 11:01 am
  3. “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).

    As it has already been established that Abraham did not exist who was this god talking about?

    Posted by Arkenaten | 15 November, 2013, 6:06 pm
    • It’s interesting that Abraham’s existence was regarded as historical fact until very recently. The existence of Noah and his sons are written into the historical records of cultures across the globe, but since they’re mentioned in the Bible, they’re dismissed and history is rewritten thousands of years after the fact. Hebrew and Babylonian historians were meticulous record keepers of the ancient world.

      It’s fine to say God is superstition and discount anything attributed to his handiwork. But there’s little question that these people existed.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 15 November, 2013, 6:35 pm
      • There is not a recognised scholar or archaeologist that considers the patriarchs were real.
        The whole story, leading up to and including the exodus and conquest of canaan is fiction.

        Thus anything in the bible that mentions such characters is not based on fact and can be disregarded as such.

        Posted by Arkenaten | 15 November, 2013, 6:41 pm
        • Per Ark, only the opinions of atheist scholars and archaeologist can be considered. The story of the Hyksos must also be ignored because they really did come from where Abraham and his family came from, and really did have an exodus from Egypt c.1560 BC. But of course Ark’s scholars and archaeologist have a comprehensive roster of everyone who was among.the Hyksos when they came, stayed, and left Egypt.

          That the historical records of the ancients are full of hyperbole and embellishment does not mean they are not based on actual people and events. Just because the hyperbole and embellishment can’t be proved, doesn’t mean the associated record is false.

          Posted by Marc | 15 November, 2013, 7:18 pm
          • Lol..
            You need to do a bit of non-specific study my man and investigate what the majority of those that concocted the stories believe – the jews.

            There was n exodus as per the bible. The was no Moses nor any of the patriarchs. That is official.

            Stop being silly.

            Posted by Arkenaten | 16 November, 2013, 2:48 am
          • Ark, You are the one who is being silly by your continuous assertions that there is nothing true in the Bible. If you were to apply the same standards of veracity you use regarding the Bible to any ancient historical record, you would have to discard the them all.

            Regarding the increasing secular views of Jews who distance themselves from the Bible, it proves nothing. The Bible is Christ centric, so those who reject Christ fail to understand the revelation of the Scriptures.

            Posted by Marc | 16 November, 2013, 12:16 pm
        • Their existence goes unchallenged for thousands of years, but suddenly now we KNOW all ancient historians and every historian thereafter through the 19th century was wrong?

          Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 15 November, 2013, 7:25 pm
          • Apparently that is the case, yes.

            Things change. In the 19th century many things were considered impossible.
            Try to imagine how a 19th century archaeologist would have greeted the thought of sonar, or a 747, or the Lunar Module.

            Difficult to come to terms with, but there you go.
            I realise this piddles on the Christians’ Cornflakes, but evidence…or lack of, is what it is.

            It is the view of almost every archaeologist, scholar, and, surprisingly enough, top Rabbis and even certain christians
            Of course this leaves the small fry….like you…floundering in an ever-shrinking pool as the tide goes out

            And sadly, in this metaphor it doesn doesn’t come.
            back in.
            Why oh why , do you lot continually look for something that just isn’t there, simply to satisfy fallacious religious beliefs?

            You were perfectly capable of letting go the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
            Did your little world implode?

            You can’t cherry pick you religious beliefs for ever without consequences.
            It’s time to climb put of the sandpit and learn to play with the grown ups.

            Posted by Arkenaten | 16 November, 2013, 3:01 am
            • I appreciate the offer, but no thanks. I find no problem with the historical record and how it all connects. Historical knowledge tends to be lost the farther out we get from the event. Advances in technology do not increase historical knowledge like they do with science. If we disregard the authoritative sources used for millennia, disregard the obvious connections, revise history so that the connections disappear, that hardly invalidates anything.

              Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 16 November, 2013, 3:54 am
  4. Loved this! In the beginning was the word…
    Added your blog to my RSS feed!
    Best!

    Posted by Ford1968 | 26 November, 2013, 3:52 pm

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