Quackery
History, Theology

Religious Proliferation — From the Top Down

ararat-twin-peaksAt the apex of our history, everyone believed in the one true Creator and knew the truths of our origin. In time, groups began to fall away and regard the one true Creator as an impersonal force, and consider all of creation as part of the original God (pantheism).

Eventually, some rulers became known as “immortals” and their parents, “gods,” blessed by the one true God, chosen to rule, and the temples they built were embassies of respect to the ruler and to God. People were told that God put Himself into the “gods,” and the new gods were an incarnation of the original God. Over time, God was forgotten and replaced by these man-made gods.

Hinduism considers God to be impersonal but still existing in gods which represent aspects of God. Wicca sees the original Creator as being emptied into creation and ceasing to exist, making humans now the highest form of life. The sons of Cham (Ham) originally taught that God emptied Himself into a few chosen people, gods, to be worshipped. At some level, all of these religions referenced the original Creator God.

As pantheism spread into Canaan, the Canaanites added ancestor worship. Zidon, Canaan’s firstborn son, became the chief deity in the city-state of Zidon. In this land he was the “Baal,” meaning “Lord” in Hebrew. Zidon’s wife was the first “Asharah” or “the princess” in Hebrew (Ha-Sharah). This form of paganism spread across the land of Canaan, in which each tribe adapted the names of their kings for the same pagan deities. (Just to be clear, “Yahweh” was not among these kings.)

And so it was that humanity spread from the Middle East over the face of the earth after the great cataclysm which flooded the earth. The descendants of Cham migrated to the east and to the south, and populated Africa, and India, and China, and the islands in the far east that were in the Indian and the Pacific Oceans. And the descendants of Japeth migrated to the west and to the north, and populated Europe, and the isles to the north, and their descendants the Scythians populated what became known as the land of Russ, and Siberia, and the lands of the north.

And as men traveled they hunted game and gathered the fruit of the land, and as they settled they learned to farm, and began to grow crops, and raised cattle and sheep, and bartered and traded, and these small communities grew into cities, and set down rules of government, and established laws to protect the weak from the strong, and to protect the rights of individuals from the state, and to protect the community from those who would attempt to rise up and usurp the social order for their own selfish ends, so that men might co-exist together in peace, and in harmony, and so that all might have their rights protected and also so that the poor, the aged, the widow, the orphan, the weak and helpless and the stranger might have their needs fulfilled in a just and equitable manner.

Sistine-Chapel-Ceiling-Noah-After-the-FloodAnd even though men forgot the original revelation given to their father Noah, they still retained much of the wisdom from the past, and from the civilization before the Flood, and the “light that lights every man who comes into the world” still gave men understanding of many of the mysteries of creation, and the image of God, even though corrupted by sin, was still imprinted on the human soul. And men still retained the knowledge of natural law that God had implemented into the creation, and in the east, in the land of Jung Gwo, the Central Country, they called this natural law, and the Way of this law, the Dao, or The Way of Heaven. And men learned how to live according to this natural law, and some who ordered their lives according to it lived to great ages, and they accumulated much knowledge. And there were wise men who kept the wisdom that was handed down to them through the generations from the time of Noah. And the Yellow Emperor was learned in much of this wisdom, and he became the father of Chinese medicine, and taught them of herbs, and of healing, and of the way to balance the forces within the human body so that men might enjoy good health, and live long and fruitful lives.

And in the land of India their sages delved into the mysteries of creation, and sought wisdom, and they recorded this wisdom in their ancient Vedas and Upanishads, and they learned much of God’s moral law for human conduct, and their sages called this law Dharma, and they taught this law to their children, and it was a good law in the beginning, and a noble law, but being removed over the years from the Revelation of their father Noah, they lost site of the original purpose of this law, which was to honor God, and to bring man into fellowship with God, and to help their fellow-man, and they became enamored of temple rites, and ceremonies that God had not instituted, and they began to worship false gods, gods who had not made the heavens and the earth, and they bowed down to idols made of wood, and metal and stone, the work of men’s hands, and as they lost the knowledge of the true God whom Noah, their father had worshiped, the caste system that their ancestors originally established for the division of labor for men to cooperate together, became an ancestral yoke preventing certain classes from enjoying equal rights in society, and from prospering, and the law which was originally meant for man’s weal became a vehicle for the enrichment of a few at the expense of the many.

And so as men wandered over the face of the earth, gradually their understanding of God, and of His righteous judgments and statutes was forgotten, and men ascribed to nature the wondrous works of the Creator, and they ceased to be thankful, and began to live for themselves, and to fulfill their own lusts, and the strong began to oppress the weak, and the rich began to take advantage of the poor, and they began to practice abominable rites, and to commit lewdness and to worship false gods, and demons, and to communicate with spirits of fallen angels, and to attempt to communicate with the dead, and God’s commandment to care for the helpless and the fatherless was forgotten as mankind forgot that all men were created in the image of God, and were loved by Him, and that men should respect the rights of others whom God had created.

And God decided that he would choose one nation through whom He would reveal His Law, the Torah, to the entire human race, and He chose a man to whom He would reveal Himself, through whose seed He would establish this nation, and through this man’s seed all the nations of the earth would eventually be blessed, for through this man’s seed would come not only the Law, but there would also come He who had been promised, a Redeemer, who would lift the curse from mankind that had fallen on them since the beginning….

 

 

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About Quackzalcoatl

Phoneticist, Palindrologist, and freelance Sharknadologist. Inventor. Ruler of 2-acre lakes and small streams.

Discussion

69 thoughts on “Religious Proliferation — From the Top Down

  1. History according to Quack

    Posted by john zande | 18 December, 2013, 7:27 am
  2. The world’s religions, or ideas about our origin, seem to run across all generations, no matter we’re not certain about how many generations nor when the human animal first began such thinking. Paleontogolists found 40,000 yr old cave drawings depicting the males consuming interest in sex, including drawings of the mystical order, and Dr Dian Fossey found evidences of a remarkable intelligence in our (alledgedly) great great great ancestors in the great apes of africa.

    I’m not in any place to define any of this world’s religions, but it seems a rather monumental paradox some can attain extraordinary perceptual and behavioural experiences concerning this life’s mysterious ” mystical presence ” , and this stands beside all the evidences and rationale of the material sciences.

    Oh sure, some scientists decide to keep their faith in a God, some atheists want us to believe how humane and ethically commited they are, and the worlds major religions are run as syndicates of power and wealth and status !

    For me, though I claim a great many mystical experiences, as evidence, God exists, I also spend a great amount of time and concern looking at this life’s nations and economies and violence and slavery and cruelty…. ALL those things generally viewed as the negatives of life. I reason, without a Loving Cosmic power/persona, we will forever be hopelessly trapped in material nature’s harmful, killing life-order, nothwithstanding those self-deluding science ‘ geeks ‘ want us to believe science will ‘ save the day ‘ .

    If you’re interested in my world view, visit http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/the-world-divides/

    Posted by Gregory | 18 December, 2013, 8:13 pm
  3. Thanks guys… quack, you’re like a fresh breeze of springtime to me. Ole, your own blog concerned me, so I hope you’re sincere. There’s some 20 yrs of work on my blog, so please feel welcome to make some time, and let me help open your Soul to some of life’s most important issues 🙂

    Posted by Gregory | 19 December, 2013, 3:31 am
  4. Interesting Quack… I always wonder where you get your information though… Did you ban Ark too? I’m surprised he hasn’t gone on a long rant…

    Posted by James82 | 24 December, 2013, 4:15 am
    • Not banned yet, dickhead. And if something’s worth commenting on …I’ll comment.

      Posted by Arkenaten | 24 December, 2013, 7:35 am
      • I must have been banned from Chi’s blog as well Ark. When I try to visit now, a password is required.

        Posted by Marc | 24 December, 2013, 10:10 am
        • Chi banned me because she didn’t like the way I presented the truth.

          Maybe you were banned because if she wants to read lies and nonsense she has the bible for that….or the church?
          Unless she see’s the light I am sure you will be invited back into the fold, Marc, come the new year.
          Keep sending in a request.
          Hey, why not pray? Hell, yes! Ask your god to open her heart for you.

          Posted by Arkenaten | 24 December, 2013, 12:37 pm
        • Yeah, I axed her what’s up with that, because she privatized her blog and all. Apparently, she’s burned out and sick of writing and thinking about it all. Period.

          Not sure I understand that, unless she’s getting a lot of grief from her family and friends (of the Christian pursuasion), because let’s face it, family can be brutal about such stuff, particularly this time of year when we have to deal with everyone… 

          Personally, I love these discussions. And the more animosity and criticism, the better, otherwise it gets boring!

          Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 24 December, 2013, 2:51 pm
          • I agree completely Quack. Our dear friend Ark has expanded my vocabulary of insults more than I could ever have hoped for. Merry Christmas Quack. I am looking forward to more of these stimulating discussions in the New Year.

            Posted by Marc | 24 December, 2013, 4:55 pm
  5. I think Quack’s brief outline of human history is probably close to reality. The only exception I would take is regarding the flood of Noah. I believe that it was local to what is now the Persian Gulf, but it happened 8,000 years ago at a time of rapid sea level rising due to massive ice melts. Because there were other coastal areas rapidly flooded, many cultures retain the flood memory in their traditions. The knowledge of the true God was imparted to all humanity at the time of Adam and Eve, about 14,000 years ago. This knowledge was preserved through the descendants of Seth, which included Noah.

    Posted by Marc | 24 December, 2013, 1:07 pm
    • The Bible says a great many things which seem far-fetched or impossible. The easiest way to deal with it is to make it say what it doesn’t say, or to apologize it. I try to be consistent in my approach. Unless it is a clear literary device where it’s obviously not to be read literally, I say take it as is.

      The great flood of Genesis was clearly intended as a global deluge. No one questioned this until, I guess, the ice core samples were examined from Antarctica, among other hypotheticals, which would seem to indicate no such event occurred. Regardless, I’ll just stick with the context and let the facts sort themselves out on the internet…

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 24 December, 2013, 2:28 pm
    • LOl. Yeah, of course. This is how is happened, “Fanks be to god”. Spoken like a true christian. What a plonker!

      Posted by Arkenaten | 24 December, 2013, 3:41 pm
      • I should have stated that was for Marc.

        Posted by Arkenaten | 24 December, 2013, 3:42 pm
        • Your kind words reflect the joy of the season Ark. Merry Christmas, from one plonker to another.

          Posted by Marc | 24 December, 2013, 4:44 pm
          • Ditto…may 2014 bring a dose of sanity into your life and you give up the man-god….after all, you gave up Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny so one more made up piece of nonsense shouldn’t be that difficult surely?

            Choose atheism, after all, its the grown up, thing to do.

            Posted by Arkenaten | 24 December, 2013, 5:32 pm
            • Atheism is short-sighted

              Vanity, arrogance and foolishness :
              – to suppose that what the self sees is the all to be seen.
              – to suppose that when the self cannot see, then nothing exists.
              – to assert what is and is not when not seeing.

              Two things to consider. The absence of proof of a thing is not a proof a thing not exist. The absence of the proof of God is not a proof God not exist, merely we have as yet not found that empirical, materialist proof.

              Given there are NO empirical, material-oriented evidences and proofs God either exists nor NOT exists, the atheists decision they are justifed to insist God NOT exist violates the rules of knowledge by witness, the basis of the institution of science. In effect, atheism has aligned itself with the dogmatism of the dark ages, deciding what is and is not merely by desire, no matter what Darwin or particle physicists say.

              Knowledge is a relative, dependent thing. Knowledge is always the product of a relationship between at least 2 distinctly differing things, where each one then gives definition and meaning and value to the other. Otherwise, a oneness only exists, which is imperceivable and has no meaningful nor valued expression. ( Though paradoxically, for a single thing may exist, and though it is expressed, its also undefined and void of any meaning. )

              In logic, ALL is relative to the first thing being true, yet it cannot of itself alone be verified as true, but only in a corelation to some other thing, which also cannot of itself alone be verified true ; If ‘ A ‘ is true, then ‘ B ‘ is true, but no one can prove ‘ A ‘ is true ! ( ‘ A’ defines ‘ B ‘ , and vice-versa, and this is the relativity of knowledge! )

              Particle physicists and their big-bang theory don’t make enough sense to me. Physicists are confined to what they can perceive and they can only perceive that which has material expression ; the finite. Its perspective is limited to only a minute ‘ portion ‘ of all reality !

              Science claims both respect and trustworthiness by it’s statements and opinions being based upon reliable witness and evidences. In the absence of proofs, one way or the other, an honest person ( with a loyal devotion to truth ) MUST stand undecided and open minded.

              To dispute the being of God is merely an attitude from a lack of personal witness. However, given many others have declared a witness of God, and those do fairly agree in details, they embody a valid concensus, which is also how science substantiates it’s statements of knowledge. For one to reject or discount that concensus is merely a product of their desire God not exist, NOT a devotion to Truth

              Posted by Gregory | 25 December, 2013, 1:15 am
              • Your understanding of atheism clearly demonstrates the inculcated mind. The atheist does NOT say gods do not exist, but rather the evidence put forward for their existence so far does not justify saying they do.

                So if you can offer evidence to show the existence of a god…any god, I really do not mind, then I may reconsider my stand point. Until that time the only arrogance on display is from the religious, and so often the Christian, as they not only claim their god, Yahweh is THE god/creator they also claim(erroneously) that their god in the human guise of Yeshua is also the creator.
                And THAT is arrogance par excellence.

                Happy Saturnalia,

                Posted by Arkenaten | 25 December, 2013, 3:55 pm
              • There really isn’t any substantial difference betweeen claiming insufficient evidences from denying God exists. I told you, and every other atheist I’ve discussed this with, some 14 yrs on the net, you believe what you choose to believe, and there ARE credible evidences. Virtually everything science claims as knowledge involves supportive concensus, and much is merely theory/opinion.

                One primary difference between science-based inquiry and spiritual witness is science’s observations and trials and measurementsc etc are confined to materialist perceptions of material phenomenum, and those center on the body’s 5 senses. Spiritual issues, as evidences, involve the mind and Heart ( thats the inner-self feelings, not brain waves ), and the venue of the mind’s eye and hearing, and there is more than a little amount of concensus from other’s like and similar perceptions and experiences.

                ( Neuroscientist Dr Beauregard cites the real evidences for the presence of mind and consciousness without any brain activity being present in the many cases of medical patients in a state of cardiac arrest. http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/ )

                Ultimately, I reason, our lives have a degree of ” free-will “, and this becomes morally important when various harfmful-of-life behaviours are involved. If we KNEW, in this life, with no doubt, a Loving and purely moral God exists, our will and character would be forced and we’d cease to be living beings, almost human, but rather Dr robotics-frankenstein’s inventions.

                You can say, and I expect you will, this is a falacious arguement, but it doesn’t stand alone as my entire justification ; my living perceptions, experiences and prior-knowledge dreams all serve to evidence God. http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/some-evidences-of-soul/

                Posted by Gregory | 25 December, 2013, 4:45 pm
              • GJ, very well stated. I think the evidences are all around us, only our perceptions are shaped by what we choose to believe. Ark has been very thoughtful in spelling out his rationale and everything he says makes perfectly good sense, from his perspective. The evidence supports his viewpoint. You and I see the same evidence and draw a vastly different conclusion which also makes sense, to us. I may be over-simplifying a bit, but my point is, neither side of the argument can introduce anything like “new evidence” to dissuade the other. Someone who is color-blind cannot experience color. Someone who is spirit-blind cannot experience the spiritual.

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 25 December, 2013, 5:22 pm
              • Thanks quack, I think your color-blind analogy is the best I’ve ever heard 🙂

                If atheists were uninvolved ” by-standers ” , I’d be less concerned, but they’re not. I’ve chosen to dedicate my life to protesting life with harm, but the indifferent ultra rich, political despots, organized crime, internet predators, and on and on, suffer our families and loved ones every day of our lives. Atheism became the ” mantra ” of the industrialists at the turn of the 18th century, and, today, the world’s youth are under the powerful influences of media and technology. WE, which know better, need to get these facts out for others to know we are not alone nor trapped on this terrible planet & material reality.

                Posted by Gregory | 25 December, 2013, 6:33 pm
  6. Absolute diatribe. Stating that a god exists is one thing, offering concrete evidence besides piss willy metaphysical conundrums is another thing altogether.
    And even if it were possible to state that there was an entity/deity being it all then your work is all ahead of you in trying to establish that this creator deity is the Middle Eastern Judeo/Christian one. And how you are ever going to figure Yeshua in this ridiculous fairy tale is beyond preposterous.

    And the absolute garbage you espouse in your last paragraph does nothing but make me sneer in disgust. That you ( and I sincerely apologize If i am off the mark here) are a Christian ( and the bile rises even as i write that ) who worships a deity that stands convicted of almost totally destroying humanity and is responsible for some of the most heinous crimes is beyond contempt. That you would likely excuse this under the Divine Command Theory is also disgusting.
    That this is based on a ridiculous nonsense of a rag called the bible is even more despicable.
    That you do not have the intellect to acknowledge that your religion is almost wholly based upon the manic dribbling of those that gathered at the promulgation of the Nicene Creed including that lying SOB Eusebius and his megalomaniac master, Constantine, is further indication that you have limited understanding of the historical development of your faith and choose merely to accept the crass nonsense handed down by a bunch of liars and hypocrites.

    This is the worst indictment as it clearly illustrates the lengths people like you will go to to ensure your screwed-up world view is passed on – especially to unsuspecting children.

    Fortunately this worldview is on its way out – albeit slowly, but it is definitely had its time in the sun. Eventually it, as will its followers – be regarded as little more than oddities .

    Posted by Arkenaten | 26 December, 2013, 4:00 am
  7. @ Gregory.

    Here you go….
    Answer these questions and we’ll take it from there, okay? Let’s see how you cope will a dose of reality.

    1. Did humanity actually, historically, experience a physical/spiritual fall from a pristine initial state to its present corrupt state? If so, provide support.

    2. Did humanity suffer a relatively early annihilation in a global flood, such that all living people are now descended from eight survivors of this catastrophe? If so, provide support.

    3. Who wrote Genesis, and how do you know? If we do not know, or do not know with good support, from where comes the claim of divine authorship or inspiration

    Posted by Arkenaten | 26 December, 2013, 6:34 am
    • As I suggested, ” I ask you not rush through my blog… ”
      http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/

      Some extracts from this post.
      http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/rebuke-of-protestant-faiths

      I also dispute the long-standing jewish faiths opinion there be only a single Godhead. Such a position holds God to be the will for and cause of and perpetrator of evil, but how can that God then command us to not harm others yet put us into a life where we are forced to harm other lives for both our own continuance and our personal havings ?

      In JOB, God terribly injures JOB by taking away every single thing JOB cares about, even his health, but when JOB challenges God the jews decide life’s injustices are beyond our understanding and we must trust in God, and just accept those offences.

      Who is God accountable to if not the lives it gave birth to and is responsible for ? I say an abused child has the moral and just right to accuse that parent, and the story of JOB does NOT express the character of our loving and just parental God !

      The book of Genesis is an irrational inventive fabrication.

      In the old Testament’s book of ‘ Genesis ‘, the premise of morality ( and Jesus ) is we suffer and die due to our offences, and if completely right-doing we’d have eternal life. Now, before ‘ Adam and Eve ‘ chose to want to experience and know ‘ evil ‘ they must have been perfectly righteous, for that action is said to have been their first ‘ sin ‘ and the cause for their inevitable deaths. Adam and Eve could NOT have been born into ‘ eden ‘ as it was a material place on earth and the material reality is foundationally a limited and mortal life.

      Posted by Gregory | 26 December, 2013, 9:25 am
      • So, If you do not believe in the Old Testament how can you believe in the New, as this is supposed to be fulfillment of prophecy.

        Do you believe in Original Sin? Yes or No

        Posted by Arkenaten | 26 December, 2013, 12:29 pm
        • @Gregory
          And I will add that you failed to offer direct simple replies. Why is it that Christians are unable to enter into a discussion without waffling a whole heap of crap?

          I’ll give you another chance.

          1. Did humanity actually, historically, experience a physical/spiritual fall from a pristine initial state to its present corrupt state? If so, provide support.

          2. Did humanity suffer a relatively early annihilation in a global flood, such that all living people are now descended from eight survivors of this catastrophe? If so, provide support.

          3. Who wrote Genesis, and how do you know? If we do not know, or do not know with good support, from where comes the claim of divine authorship or inspiration

          Think carefully and please answer the questions as written. No waffling…

          Posted by Arkenaten | 26 December, 2013, 12:47 pm
          • I had quite enough of your inquisition…

            You, Ark, ARE a typical theist… they ‘ fudge ‘ the facts to turn things their way and they argue in absolutes, making it impossible for the Truth to get thru and impossible for their opponent’s position to stand.

            Posted by Gregory | 26 December, 2013, 6:17 pm
            • I am an atheist. So, once again will you please answer the questions.No waffle, no semantics, no philosophy, no metaphysics.

              Posted by Arkenaten | 27 December, 2013, 5:26 pm
              • Ark,

                When I read your list of questions, it reminds me of being back in school. Are you in the teaching profession?

                Regarding your first question on this list for Gregory, if you want answers regarding the possibility of a physical/spiritual fall, how can you eliminate metaphysics from an answer about anything spiritual?

                Posted by Marc | 28 December, 2013, 9:38 am
  8. @ Marc.
    If you want to join in but cannot come up with a straight answer then don’t waste mine or anyone else’s time.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 28 December, 2013, 3:11 pm
  9. 1. The human condition raises questions about why we function in ways that are unique among other known life forms. Rather than instinct, human beings appear to be guided by a conscience. This conscience may be related to a spiritual faculty that cannot be empirically observed or measured. When one considers how human beings often fall short of their proven capacity to love each other as caring and creative creatures, the Biblical explanation of a rebellion against the Creator that caused this condition to occur seems reasonable.

    2. The flood of Noah was not global, and did not annihilate all of humanity except for Noah’s family. The focus of the Holy Scriptures from the second chapter of Genesis on is about those descendants of Seth from whom the Incarnation would take place. The purpose of the flood of Noah’s time was to maintain a household of faith to move the plan of salvation forward. This flood likely took place in what is now the upper Persian Gulf at a time 8,000 years ago when the sea level rose rapidly worldwide due to massive ice melts from the last ice age. This explains why so many human cultures have a flood story.

    3. I have no reason to refute the Christian Tradition that Moses wrote the book of Genesis. I have seen no proof presented by anyone to refute the existence of Moses, or his authorship of Genesis. I accept the claim of Holy Tradition that Genesis and the rest of the Holy Scriptures are an inspired synergism of their authors and the Holy Spirit. Because none of the Bible was a direct dictation from God, it is not inerrant. However it is a reliable revelation of God when read in the context of Holy Apostolic Tradition.

    Posted by Marc | 28 December, 2013, 4:22 pm
    • Sometimes I utterly despair of such blatant, willful ignorance.
      Here is a chance to educate yourself.
      Please make an effort as people will eventually turn their backs on the level of ignorance/stupidity on display.
      Consider this a gift….

      http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/of-course-what-you-say-is-true-but-we-should-not-say-it-publically-13/?relatedposts_exclude=2668

      Posted by Arkenaten | 29 December, 2013, 2:45 pm
      • Your assumption regarding this link, makes an ass out of you. You prove that you are out of contact with reality by assuming Christians and Muslims are going to give any weight to this nonsense.

        Posted by Marc | 29 December, 2013, 7:03 pm
        • Nonsense! Ha ha ha ha ….you are so funny.

          And your reply illustrates how truly ignorant and inculcated you have become.
          And, I am happy to say, there are more Christians than you would feel comfortable with who already accept this.

          And once the Jews come fully ‘out of the closet’ and publicly announce that everything in the Old Testament is crap; mere folklore, where are you going to hide, hotshot?

          I know in my heart that there are a great many Crispyans and Moreslims who are aware of this info and doubt their religions already. Even you , I’ll wager are feeling a tiny twinge? You wouldn’t be normal if you didn’t doubt from time to time, and when revelations like these come along you must be squeezing your cheeks and praying “Let it not be so…pleeeeese”

          Shame… you and the rest of the idiotic monotheists are going to look like proper berks when that day arrives, and you can bet your ass it will.

          Posted by Arkenaten | 30 December, 2013, 1:28 pm
          • I suspect that you and I will be dead or the Lord will return before your wish comes to pass Ark. In either event I will have the pleasure of seeing you swallow your misplaced pride in repentance and embrace the Truth and eternal life like St. Thomas,

            Posted by Marc | 30 December, 2013, 2:19 pm
            • You really are an inculcated dick.

              Posted by Arkenaten | 30 December, 2013, 4:21 pm
              • No more inculcated than you.

                Because theism and deism are rational enough to acknowledge an intelligent Creator as the source of the cosmos, their models have a basis in reality. Atheist with their multiverse model are completely delusional by comparison.

                Posted by Marc | 30 December, 2013, 6:16 pm
              • I am not inculcated at all, and am perfectly willing to accept the notion of a creator deity if enough evidence can be provided.
                That not a single verifiable piece has ever been offered up in the entirety of human history I consider evidence enough that every deity ever mentioned is more than likely man-made.

                That the archaeological evidence for any such being(s) is also non-existent, as is the evidence to back any biblical claims (your only source of information) about this deity and the others the Canaanites and eventually Jews/Christians/Muslims worshiped clearly suggests that
                a) you are all piddling in the wind and
                b) you are scared witless that when the Jews eventually make a formal announcement ( that it is nonsense is already taught in schools across Israel) concerning the mythological nature of the Torah Christians and Muslims will Poop their Pants.

                However, just to humour you,, even if we accept the hypothesis of a creator only then do your problems begin.
                Because you worship a man-god, whose very existence is not so cut and dried. But ignoring this for a second
                even if we were to allow that his divinity claim is on the level how do get from a divine ”Jesus” to Creator?

                Best of luck with that ….

                Posted by Arkenaten | 31 December, 2013, 7:17 am
              • An objective review of all the scientific evidence available to us today points to an intelligent cause for the cosmos and life. Having acknowledged “natures god” as a deist, one can leave it alone or explore the reasons why.

                Having done the exploration, I found that Easter Orthodox Christianity had the most plausible understanding of the reasons. Because these explanations go beyond time/space, they cannot be empirically proven as certain.

                Given the needle in a haystack reality regarding archaeological support of the existence of a specific person in antiquity, the Biblical accounts of the existence of an individual can neither be confirmed nor refuted. The findings of the 21st Century Rabbis will not be given much weight by Christians because of the changing priorities of the Jewish community since the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. Judaism is more defined by the Talmud and secularism, than the Torah today.

                Regarding the God-man as the Creator, the Eastern Orthodox Church is replete with explanations of the Trinity.

                Posted by Marc | 31 December, 2013, 11:24 am
              • An objective review of all the scientific evidence available to us today points to an intelligent cause for the cosmos and life. Having acknowledged “natures god” as a deist, one can leave it alone or explore the reasons why.

                This is little more than Creationist diatribe and unfortunately for you and your ilk you will not find a single top-flight scientist that agrees with this statement.

                Judaism is more defined by the Talmud and secularism, than the Torah today

                Lol..Exactly! And why? Because they know it is all bullshit..
                Anything to worm your way out of confronting the truth, eh? Piddling in your drawers already?

                Regarding the God-man as the Creator, the Eastern Orthodox Church is replete with explanations of the Trinity.

                I could given an es aitch one T about the Eastern Orthodox Church and its dingbat dogma.
                Anyone who has an inkling of knowledge about history will know perfectly well that the Trinity was a church invention; there is not a single allusion to it in the bible and JC flatly denied any claims of god hood.
                And I will bet you a million bucks you will not find a single statement claimed to be uttered by the biblical character that has him saying ” I am god”…not one.

                Go and do some damn research for your god’s sake, and stop behaving like an apologetic inculcated wally.

                Posted by Arkenaten | 31 December, 2013, 1:06 pm
  10. The human condition raises questions about why we function in ways that are unique among other known life forms. Rather than instinct, human beings appear to be guided by a conscience. This conscience may be related to a spiritual faculty that cannot be empirically observed or measured. When one considers how human beings often fall short of their proven capacity to love each other as caring and creative creatures, the Biblical explanation of a rebellion against the Creator that caused this condition to occur seems reasonable.

    Unique? No, not all all, and you have offered no qualifying evidence to back this erroneous statement.
    And then you add to this by making a complete fool of yourself by inserting the word “Creator”, thus rendering the whole comment as nothing more than apologist polemic. Why you people resort to such diatribe is beyond me, especially as you wish to be taken seriously.

    The flood of Noah was not global, and did not annihilate all of humanity except for Noah’s family. The focus of the Holy Scriptures from the second chapter of Genesis on is about those descendants of Seth from whom the Incarnation would take place. The purpose of the flood of Noah’s time was to maintain a household of faith to move the plan of salvation forward. This flood likely took place in what is now the upper Persian Gulf at a time 8,000 years ago when the sea level rose rapidly worldwide due to massive ice melts from the last ice age. This explains why so many human cultures have a flood story.

    ”This flood likely took place .” Speculation. Furthermore, it has been established the Pentateuch is fiction, and Noah’s flood is an adaptation of an early flood story, likely Gilgamesh. Quoting names such as Seth and Noah as if they were real people merely makes you look very silly.

    I have no reason to refute the Christian Tradition that Moses wrote the book of Genesis. I have seen no proof presented by anyone to refute the existence of Moses, or his authorship of Genesis. I accept the claim of Holy Tradition that Genesis and the rest of the Holy Scriptures are an inspired synergism of their authors and the Holy Spirit. Because none of the Bible was a direct dictation from God, it is not inerrant. However it is a reliable revelation of God when read in the context of Holy Apostolic Tradition.

    Firstly, the Old Testament was a Jewish tradition before it became a Christian tradition and most Jews recognise it is not factual in any shape or form. It has been demonstrated that Moses was a fictional character, the Pentateuch is all fiction and this is agreed upon by every recognized biblical scholar in the world.
    Only a blithering idiot who has no understanding of the Old Testament would still hold on to the fallacious belief that it was composed by someone called “Moses”.

    In retrospect, it might have been better if you had not, in fact, commented.
    However, on saying this, we now know the type of idiotic apologist we are dealing with and can adjust further dialogue to make allowances for the almost remedial level of intellect.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 29 December, 2013, 2:37 pm
  11. If I would ever be considered anything other than ignorant and stupid by a narrow minded fool like you Ark, I would be concerned. Thanks for removing any doubts I might have had about the worth of your perspective. You have nothing to say that even approximates reality, so please take your mummified brain and ideas to the other dead atheist spirits who share your warped perverted views.

    Posted by Marc | 29 December, 2013, 4:27 pm
  12. And this from someone who believes there Moses and Noah were real people?
    RFLMFAO.
    What a complete numpty you are.
    This made my day.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 30 December, 2013, 1:17 pm
  13. We already had an extended exchange about Moses and the exodus, and why the rabbi’s and archaeologist got it wrong. Given that Noah and Moses had functioning spiritual faculties Ark, they were more real and complete human beings than you are.

    I am glad to humor you, because you always return the favor. After you laugh your ass off, how do you reestablish the nervous and vascular connections to your brain?

    Posted by Marc | 30 December, 2013, 2:26 pm
    • LOL…I think I will take my chances with the expert opinions of the thousands of archaeologists and scholars who consider the Old Testament so much hogwash over the opinion of a rather silly reborn Christian, thank you very much.

      If I had it in me, I would pity you, however, with the abundance of information available and your continued refusal to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong your POV is deserving of ridicule rather than sympathy.

      Enjoy the delusion.

      Posted by Arkenaten | 30 December, 2013, 4:20 pm
      • Ark,

        I am an old guy who has been wrong about a lot of things in my life. Regarding my cosmic POV, I was an agnostic as a young adult, a Protestant for over 25 years, a Deist for a few years, and now an Eastern Orthodox Christian for over 13 years. I have explored and eliminated a lot of points of view using an apophatic approach. If it is not possible or probable, I am not interested. Atheism does not pass the probable test because of it’s denial of an intelligent Creator as the source for the cosmos.

        If my POV is correct I will try to pity you and your thousands of experts standing before the Lord finally realizing that you have all been a bunch of numpties, plonkers, and dicks. If your POV is correct we will no longer exist.

        Posted by Marc | 30 December, 2013, 6:51 pm
        • Atheism does not pass the probable test because of it’s denial of an intelligent Creator as the source for the cosmos.

          This is nothing more than a god of the gaps waffle. Because you don’t understand then there must be someone behind it all.

          That you are a Christian demonstrates the level of ignorance you are now wallowing in. One would have thought at your age

          you would have grown up a little. Maybe it is fear of encroaching death or simply senility?

          If you are up to a grown up conversation no problem, but please, enough of this ridiculous religious diatribe.

          Posted by Arkenaten | 31 December, 2013, 7:24 am
          • Not so much fear as hope Ark. Would you be disappointed to find yourself still alive after the death of your body? Would a first hand explanation of why you exist not be satisfying? Would reunion with your departed family and friends not be cause for celebration? Would the prospect of eternal life in a new and much improved life form, living in communion with your Creator, family, and friends in a completed and perfected cosmos not be exciting?

            Posted by Marc | 31 December, 2013, 11:41 am
            • Truly, this type of prattle is verging on insanity.
              You really are a very silly person.

              Posted by Arkenaten | 31 December, 2013, 1:08 pm
              • Thanks for giving me the opportunity to confirm why I am not a silly atheist.

                Posted by Marc | 31 December, 2013, 3:13 pm
              • The fact that you have jumped from one belief to another over the course of your life clearly indicates you are not following where the facts lead but rather searching for ‘something’. that fits an already preconceived ideal, which you appear to have found in the Eastern Orthodox Church. ( for now, as who knows, you may switch again. You have before.)

                That you also resort to polemic at every bend in the road demonstrates the insecurity that is all too common among the religious when confronted by reality.

                That there are over 41,000 different Christian sects (denominations) should be cause for concern for every christian who should be asking some very pertinent questions about this supposed “word of god”.

                That you don’t ask such questions tells the outsider a lot more about your supposed infallible god inspired religion than you lot might be comfortable with.

                But maybe you are all just too dense to worry about such little trifles as the truth?

                Posted by Arkenaten | 1 January, 2014, 2:02 pm
              • Although I do not know your age Ark, it sounds as thought you have been an atheist all of your adult life.

                If I have used polemics, so have you.

                I have asked a lot of questions in my journey of life because unlike you, I don’t have all the answers

                The Orthodox Christian Church predates the many thousands of Christian sects that exist today.

                I fully intend to remain an Orthodox Christian to the end of this life, and remains so into eternal life.

                Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 1:44 am
  14. Although I do not know your age Ark, it sounds as thought you have been an atheist all of your adult life.

    Pretty much, yes. Once I had researched the Moses/Exodus issue and later the New Testament and realised it is all nonsense my marginal Christian faith fell away completely.

    If I have used polemics, so have you.

    Except that your argument is based on myth and lies.

    The Orthodox Christian Church predates the many thousands of Christian sects that exist today.

    So ? What is your point? You think because it is one of the oldest Christian religions it is any less fraudulent? Smile…you >em> really ought to research the history of your church and make sure it includes Constantine, that lying SOB Eusebius and Theodosius.

    I fully intend to remain an Orthodox Christian to the end of this life, and remains so into eternal life.

    Yes, yes…blah blah. No doubt you uttered similar platitudes when you were protestant, agnostic and any other colour in between. The hypocrite within will surely raise its ugly head somewhere, sometime along the line.
    It is after al, what defines the religious.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 8:33 am
    • Do you associate with family or friends that are theist or deist?

      Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 10:00 am
      • Why do you ask?

        Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 10:01 am
        • Because I often wonder if the facade of the Ark allows a kinder soul to vent his frustrations with the prevailing POV of some family and friends.

          Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 10:13 am
          • This is rather an obscure reply, or maybe I am just too tired, baking here in the heat of jo burg. Would you try to be more succinct,please, Marc.
            Are you suggesting I act differently/.the same with religious friends or family?

            Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 10:17 am
            • Yes Ark, I wonder if you do express yourself the same way with religious family and friends. If we were sitting around a table drinking coffee together in a venue between Indiana and South Africa were the weather was pleasant, would our conversation reflect a different tone?

              Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 10:34 am
              • Picking up nuances, facial expressions, etc is impossible during written dialogue over the Internet, so I invariably come across as blunt and to the point.
                If we were opposite each other over a dinner things may be slightly different, thought i feel you would end up having your backside chewed a lot more a face to face dialogue would allow us to cover a lot more ground. Inevitably any conversation would degenerate until we reached the ;point where everything you believed rested on faith, as you would be unable to provide a shred of evidence for any claim you made.

                As for blogging, if someone writes anything I consider diatribe in an open forum and I feel inclined to comment, then I shall call it as i see it.

                I have stated my view regarding religion and the idiots that peddle it often enough. You are all entitled to your own beliefs, not your own facts.
                You wish to believe in the religious nonsense pertaining to your faith that’s fine with me – but it is expressly commanded that you all proselytize and that I have no truck with; that you damage children with this crap is reprehensible and I consider child abuse. And when I say religion, I refer to ALL religion; I do not consider Christianity anything special.

                As for family and friends; the majority are ambivalent. The most ignorant are, as to be expected, those with religious leanings.
                I do not generally get into discussions similar to the blogs as these topics are seldom raised. Besides, it is a matter of simple fact and not any boastful claim that I know a great deal more about religion than those around me, especially the few professing Christians.

                Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 10:53 am
              • Thanks for the clarification Ark.

                Your arrogance and narrow minded views on reality are so irrational, I see no reason to waste any more of my time engaging you on this, or any other blog site.

                I leave you to God’s mercy and future illumination.

                Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 11:16 am
  15. Your arrogance and narrow minded views on reality are so irrational, I see no reason to waste any more of my time engaging you on this, or any other blog site.

    I leave you to God’s mercy and future illumination.

    Yes, the final retreat of the religious.

    Why would you consider me arrogant? Simply because i don’t Kowtow to the nonsense you espouse and genuflect to your imaginary sky daddy?
    This is disgusting!
    Your ilk has been the bane of humanity for over 2000 years and you still haven’t got it right, have you?
    You preach from a disgusting rag, you claim you have the keys to salvation ( whatever the HELL that is) yet condemn every other to eternal torture if they don’t follow your effing ridiculous middle eastern god?
    Or you sit smugly in your ivory tower and claim your god will judge and it has nothing to do with you.

    Your willful ignorance of history is palpable and this is almost criminal as you continue to be the cause of child abuse by spreading this poison.

    Your faith – and others like it – is the most arrogant world view in existence. That you worship a deity that was responsible for the liquidation of most of humanity and has been behind several genocides (directly or indirectly) is cause enough to reject this belief system. And you should be ashamed for perpetuating a lie that offers nothing and has done nothing but cause untold misery throughout history.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 11:33 am
  16. Quack,

    I am sorry to let you down regarding continuing discussions laced with animosity and criticisms, but Ark is so irrational it just seems like a waste of time. In his delusional mind he accuses a God whom he does not believe exists, of having liquidated most of humanity, and having been behind several genocides. His other empty accusations just confirm his failing grasp on reality. It is probably unkind to humor ourselves with engagement of such an unstable individual, but this is your blog so it is your call. I leave him to you, and God’s mercy.

    Posted by Marc | 2 January, 2014, 12:06 pm
    • That I don’t believe it is irrelevant…you DO and base your world view – which you impose on others without their consent – on the fallacious diatribe contained in a disgusting rag you call the bible.
      And of course, there are other idiots – Muslims for one – who push their version of this crap who consider what you believe as just so much rubbish.
      Funny, eh? Same god, different religions, millions of idiots.

      If you kept it to yourself I could care less what you believe. But dickheads like you and various other strains of idiotic religions that wish to poison society in general with tales of Floods, Genocides, Exodus, fictional characters, man gods and other rubbish ad nauseum and teach it as FACT are a disgusting menace, and the strife caused around the globe is testament to this.
      I hope that every time a child dies because of some warped interpretation of religious doctrine it leaves an indelible mark on your conscience.

      You should be ashamed. That you are not, is disgusting.

      However, there is light at the end of the tunnel as those who prefer common sense, fact, and normal human decency will oppose the diatribe you and every other Abrahamic god believer (and all others in between) consider reality.

      And guess what? Thank the gods, the fact is the truth is prevailing and you lot will eventually be nothing but a sad anachronism in the annals of human history.
      This knowledge makes me smile.
      So you go ahead and wallow in your nonsense for all you are worth, Marc.

      In the long run, you are merely pissing in the wind.

      Posted by Arkenaten | 2 January, 2014, 3:05 pm
    • I don’t really mind it as long as it doesn’t scare people away from commenting, which I don’t think is the case, so no worries.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 4 January, 2014, 5:25 pm
  17. Good morning Quack. Pleased to see your gladiators are still going at each other 🙂

    Posted by paulfg | 4 January, 2014, 3:10 am

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