Quackery
Fiction

Simple Mechanics

egypt_anatomy_lesson_20_june_1829 flash friday 1.3.14“So you see, we are composed of interlocking parts, hoses and valves, pumps and compressors, surrounding a central tract of connecting tubes where food goes in and waste goes out. No more than that.”

The room lay quiet. Egyptian scholars, adorned ornately according to their time, surrounded a corpse, dissected and stretched across a cloth in grotesque disfigurement.

“When the body breathes its last, the soul escapes. Perhaps inside this very room, now, the soul seeks to return but it cannot. The connection is severed.”

Candles flickered and the wind began to howl. The living crowded and craned for a view of the dead. Optics captured images, neurons fired, pulses raced, oxygen expanded lungs and gases exchanged, vocal chords vibrated and cartilage percussed.

“The heart, in the palm of my hand, no bigger than your fist.”

Hope in the hand, a fisted will. Emotions rose, passions inflamed.

The soul was silent.

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About Quackzalcoatl

Phoneticist, Palindrologist, and freelance Sharknadologist. Inventor. Ruler of 2-acre lakes and small streams.

Discussion

104 thoughts on “Simple Mechanics

  1. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 St. Paul confirms that human beings are tripartite, composed of a body, soul, and spirit. The body as the material aspect of man’s nature enables us to engage the material creation. The soul is the life-force that animates the body. Although other animals have a soul, the human soul is rational, having the capacity for abstract thought and the ability to advance by discursive argument from premises to a conclusion. Among material creatures, only human beings have been given a spirit. The spirit enables us to be like God and to enter into communion with God. When the body dies, it is the spirit that remains alive and is animated by the life-force of the soul. Although the spirit and soul survive the death of the body, they are not immortal by nature. Immortality is a gift given by God to those who choose the way to truth and life, Annihilation awaits those who choose the way of evil and death (see John 3:16 and Matthew 10:28).

    Posted by Marc | 4 January, 2014, 11:26 am
    • That is an interesting take, one I generally agree with. Unsure whether the soul can be destroyed, but I agree with you regarding the spirit, since we become “reborn” by spiritual birth, which grants us eternal life. Do those not born of spirit not survive?

      I have difficulty believing souls can be destroyed, because I am unsure what exactly constitutes a soul. Genesis presents it as the “breath” of God, which would seem eternal by nature, just as the spirit is eternal.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 4 January, 2014, 5:12 pm
      • The concept of a naturally eternal soul was prevalent in the pagan beliefs of the Greco-Roman period. The revelation given to Jews and Christians refutes this belief. The story in Eden regarding the two trees is the first indicator that eternal life was something to be gained, not something that was natural to mankind. Rom 6:23—”For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” John 5:24—”Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” The choice is always between eternal life and eternal death, not eternal life suffering in torment. The second death referred to in the book of Revelation is complete annihilation (see Revelation 21:8). Matthew 10:28—”Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” The true God does not torture anyone for eternity. He seeks to have a relationship based on love with all of His rational creatures. For those that reject His love and the gift of eternal life that goes with it, God simply grants their wish. In the end there are only two types of people; those that say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, “Thy will be done.”

        Posted by Marc | 5 January, 2014, 10:15 am
        • Great points. I think you’re probably right.

          Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 5 January, 2014, 10:48 am
          • The sad thing about about the false teachings concerning eternal torment and the damnation of most of humanity, is how the Gospel has been turned into anything but “good new” by so many professing Christians. If these distortions were true, I would be a deist instead of a Christian. I also understand why so many of our atheist friends reject so much of what passes for Christianity.

            Posted by Marc | 5 January, 2014, 11:24 am
    • ” In 1 Thessalonians 5:23 St. Paul confirms that human beings are tripartite, composed of a body, soul, and spirit ”

      I wonder how mortals on earth can ” confirm ” such non-material stuff, not to ignore, how did Paul become a saint !

      Lots of opinions in bible and N.T. Sooooh, here’s some of mine 🙂

      I define our being, including the beloved Goodness of God and Jesus, as a body ( a defined self, whether in the realm of the eternal or mortal matter ), a mind ( our voice and hearing and sight, all serving knowledge, idea, and imagination, with memory. Science’s claims we use only a fraction of our brains powers, are a bit premature ; what about mind ! ), and Heart ( our Life energy, and bonding tie with ALL livingkind ).

      To suppose these occur as our Soul and Spirit seems confused. True, in this material life, we DO possess an ” outer self ” and ” inner self “, but I can’t distinguish what would define, or be, the soul versus the spirit. We could suppose, whether by mystical witness or reason alone, in God’s domain, ALL are wholly expressed, all the time, and so calling them spirits or souls, seems to me, pretty-much, to mean the same one thing.

      BTW : I passionately dispute Paul’s (Saul) authority !
      http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/rebuke-of-protestant-faiths

      Posted by Gregory | 5 January, 2014, 8:55 pm
  2. “Hope in the hand, a fisted will.” That’s really a lovely analogy, Quack…me likey.

    Off on a tangent now….you got me to thinking about their embalming practices, which sent my mind a step further to this very funny show called Bubba Ho Tep. See what happens when you’re blonde?

    Posted by kellsbellsfrompc | 4 January, 2014, 2:17 pm
    • You worry me sometimes, Kells. In a good way…

      I’m sure the smell was quite unpleasant. Refrigeration was rather primitive in the early 19th century, and climate control was non-existent. Perhaps they used a volunteer? A professional cadaver? I wonder how well that paid…

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 4 January, 2014, 5:20 pm
  3. New Truths often pass through 3 stages : it is ridiculed, it is violently opposed, and then accepted as being self-evident – Arthur Schopenhauer 1788-1860

    Paul is NOT Jesus, and some believe Jesus is the ONLY Son of God !

    Paul said : 1Co 11:1 ” Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. ”

    My choice for a most sincere and trusting believer and follower of JESUS is Francis of Assisi. Francis was born into a wealthy family and had an assured future of priviledge and comfort, but he chose to turn-away from that, instead dedicating his life to helping the sick and the poor. Who do you think ” touched ” Francis ? JESUS, of course… in my opinion.

    Do you think what JESUS asked of Francis was any different from what He asks of us in the gospels ? ( Those which most forsake this material life, from their intention to join Love for all livingkind, most express their opposition to the harmfulness of material life, and most express Love for Life. )

    ” Trump ” card in the ‘ game ‘ of Hearts :

    JESUS could not support material life, and its possessions, etc, and not then endorse its harmfulness. JESUS, thereby, DOES express the Whole-Hearted Love for ALL Livingkind in so doing.

    ” The Mystical Presence in Life ” – Canadian blog by GJPaul
    http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/rebuke-of-protestant-faiths

    Posted by Gregory | 7 January, 2014, 8:24 am
    • Paul was an Apostle who was sent by Jesus to share the Gospel. Holy Tradition is often called Holy Apostolic Tradition because it was first handed down by the Apostles. Holy Tradition also includes the lives of the Saints. Many of the Saints chose a life of poverty as monastics to focus their lives more fully on the spiritual realities.

      Posted by Marc | 7 January, 2014, 10:38 am
      • Marc, you’ve intentionally avoided my point and Truth.

        Paul (Saul) invented his own ” Law ” , a new ” law “, directly contradictiing the Law GOD gave to Jesus. Those which choose to follow Paul need ignore the Gospels Jesus, no matter there are some contradictions in the gospels.

        Protestants are effectively saying GOD changed its mind, and used Jesus to use Saul/Paul to convey GOD’s new law to all humankind, a law which needs NOT serve Love nor Sacrifice, but only profess belief in Jesus.

        If one removes GOD’s will we Love and care for one another, sothen most of Jesus’s own deeds and lessons and statements and authority in the gospels, the ENTIRE Life and works of Jesus, including HIS CRUCIFICTION and RESURRECTION, COLLAPSE !

        Oh well, protestants cannot be reasoned with.
        buh-buy

        Posted by Gregory | 7 January, 2014, 7:37 pm
        • Gregory, As I read your posts and have visited your blog site, it appears that the only books of the Bible that you believe are inspired are the four gospels. Although we Eastern Orthodox Christians only place the four gospels on our altars because it is Jesus Christ we worship and not the Bible, we hold that all of the Scriptures are inspired and of use in understanding the revelations of Jesus Christ. Unlike the Protestants who believe in Sola Scriptura, Eastern Orthodox Christians base their faith on the entire Holy Apostolic Tradition.

          Posted by Marc | 8 January, 2014, 12:08 pm
          • Marc… I don’t see much significant difference between eastern orthodox and western protestants.

            The term ” inspired ” is usually used by those which intend to de-rail those which criticize various passages etc in both the old and new testaments. It comes on the heals of far-right christians, which insist the bible is the word of God, sothen perfectly true.

            Apparently you ‘ scanned ‘ my post ” Rebuke of Protestant Faiths ” , but did NOT pay much attention to what I said, also typical for protestants to do.

            Jesus is NOT GOD. Our Loving Parent, some impersonally name as God, told us, via MOSES ( Old Testament ) , to not place/hold any other before it.

            Where Loving Goodness asks we worship it is open to debate, though it’s common for many christians to substitute words ( and ceremony, ritual, art, etc ) for acts !

            When I speak, in my Soul, towards that ” person “, I give thanks for myself and others, I ask for myself and others, and I confide my mistakes and regrets.

            Thanks is akin to praise, and I do praise Loving Goodness for giving me, and the world, Jesus.

            I do also give thanks to Jesus, I ask for guidance, and I apologize for misusing His name. ( when I get very angry. )

            Posted by Gregory | 8 January, 2014, 4:30 pm
            • Gregory,
              Our cosmic views and spiritual understandings are so far apart from one another that there is no common ground upon which we can agree and continue a conversation. I wish you well, and pray that God’s mercy will strengthen and bless you.

              Posted by Marc | 8 January, 2014, 7:24 pm
              • Marc, can we agree, our Loving ” Parent’s ” character is Loving, and it asks We also join to be Loving of one another ?

                The degree of how much sacrifice need be taken-up is debateable, yet Jesus promises sincere believers will have His understanding and Mercy, which, I reason, translates to
                forgiveness.

                Among the meanings of sacrifice is His crucifiction, and that act is ” proven ” safe by Jesus’s Ressurrection.

                Altogether, sincere believers do Trust in both sacrifice and their ressurrection.

                Do you agree ?

                Posted by Gregory | 9 January, 2014, 7:06 am
              • Oops… I meant resurrection…. ( I’m been breathing very badly these past 10 days, due to the severe dryness of the air in the terribly cold weather where I live)

                I want to add, in my community, there’s several mennonite groups, and they do very meaningful and important works for the families in those communites.

                I believe Jesus Loves them, and will forgive all reasonable mistakes.

                Posted by Gregory | 9 January, 2014, 7:17 am
              • Gregory,

                In the light of what you have written here, I was wrong to state that our spiritual understandings were too far apart to sustain a conversation.

                I also understand the human condition to be defined by family. I believe that we are all children of God who have a tremendous potential to love and create. Our current troubled reality reflects how our lives are connected to one another. Our failures and triumphs in loving each other have widespread effects through our current communities and often over many generations.

                The adolescent decision to rebel against God by the first human beings has had ramification that have played out over many thousands of years. God does not force his rational creatures to love Him, so He leaves them to their own devices. As a good parent He allows the lessons of tough love to be learned, while insuring that no one perishes. All of His Children continue to live in the spiritual realm, even after they leave the physical realm at the death of their bodies.

                Through the Incarnation, Jesus Christ shows us the way to truth and eternal life in communion with God. Jesus’ sacrifice to the fallen human condition of death, opens they way to resurrection and eternal life. This resurrected life is to be lived with love in both the spiritual and physical creations. Through Jesus Christ we can begin to experience the resurrected life by choosing to love God and each other.

                I hope you can find a source of humidification Gregory. I know a small humidifier, and then the C-Pap with humidification helped by brother get through these dry winter days.

                Posted by Marc | 9 January, 2014, 10:38 am
              • Very well said Marc !

                My ” resurrected ” life began in 1973 when Jesus replied to me ( in my mind (1/3 of Soul), and this became the main turning moment in my life ; the ” born-again ” gift.

                Famiies are the core value of life, whether material or gossamer, and when one understands virtually ALL appropriate life are ones True family, God’s will is fulfilled, and Jesus’s works on earth the more Sacred.

                I do want to say I have a vaporizer, and I connected a timer to it, and it made an important improvement… enough I was finally able to make a grocery run and can eat from a better menu again 🙂

                Because of your patient explanations, I’ve gained an important understanding of what some of the eastern orthodox faith is. Thankyou very much Marc (^.^)

                Posted by Gregory | 10 January, 2014, 1:16 am
              • We have been resurrected in Christ, made alive to higher things, given sight to see the unseen reality which the dead in Christ cannot. The remarkable nature of this truth is often lost on us because of our own lack of faith and acceptance, that we see what we see which others tell us we cannot possibly see.

                Whatever arguments or disagreement we might have amongst each other is trivial compared to what we ultimately agree on.

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 10 January, 2014, 5:56 pm
              • I am thankful that you are feeling better and were able to get out and about Gregory. It is above freezing here in Northern Indiana today. Perhaps some of this warmer air will make it up your way.

                Orthodox Christians can carry much of the same baggage as Protestants and Roman Catholics. However, I believe that the Orthodox have done a better job of preserving the spirituality and teaching of the Ancient Christian Faith.

                Posted by Marc | 10 January, 2014, 12:15 pm
              • Protestants tend to get hung up on specific doctrines. Give me bare-bones Christianity and go from there on your own, I say. I hate arguing minutia endlessly and losing focus of the bigger picture. Focus on the Gospel and expound from there…

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 10 January, 2014, 5:49 pm
              • Well, Marc and Ducky… interesting to know for us, I have been expressing my disappointment to God and Jesus my blog wasn’t doing what I believed it could do, and I began questioning myself : was I wrong about some of my views… am I unworthy of representing God and/or Jesus …

                ALWAYS, I returned to Love, and KNEW God and Jesus’s Love for all livingkind, so I accept to ” carry-on ” , hoping for that visitor which might lift my blog to popularity.

                As it happened Ducky, you posted a like on my blog, and in you and Marc, I’ve found very good and important discussion and learning.

                btw Marc : friday was a bad day… adverse reactions to food and meds, so I went to bed early, hoping my kidneys would eliminate those ” toxins ‘ . It early saturday here now and I’m breathing ok, and in the process of making my own pita bread. Gotta go, dough is just ready , but no more corporate bread from my food bank.

                Posted by Gregory | 11 January, 2014, 4:34 am
              • Quack, There is wisdom in your comments about remaining focused on the Gospel. The sad thing is that many professing Christian would rather judge others that share the good news about the resurrected life in Jesus Christ. I think this must be because they don’t really believe the good news that eternal life is available to everyone who chooses it.

                Gregory, the toxic effects of food additives can be problematic. Fresh baked bread is always a delight to smell and eat. I noticed on your blog site that to leave a comment one had to be registered and log in. Quack’s site lets me comment by simply entering my email address and name. Perhaps if you made that option available, you might get more comments on your site.

                Posted by Marc | 11 January, 2014, 10:45 am
              • Marc ; Luther’s Paul/Saul exempts protestants from both God’s will we do in DEED Love and care for all others in this life of earth, and the unavoidable necessity for Sacrifice, which Jesus lived and taught and commands and suffered for.

                St. Mathew 20:16 ” … for many are called, but few chosen. ”
                St. Mathew 19:17 ” … but if you will enter into life, keep the Commandments ”
                St. Mathew 22:39 ” … thou shalt Love thy neighbour as thyself ”

                btw : thanks for the tip on comment priviledge… my concern was hostile and malicious anti-socials. I suppose I could remove those comments, but that could swamp me, and with automated Social Media bot invaders too.

                Posted by Gregory | 11 January, 2014, 4:49 pm
              • Gregory, anytime you confront people with truth and challenging perspectives, you invite hostility. Welcome it, and know it isn’t personal. Don’t even argue with them — thank them for reading, and pray for their soul.

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 11 January, 2014, 5:06 pm
  4. This is YOUR world protestants, and play the audio files ; perhaps, you’ll come back to reality.

    ” The Mystical Presence in Life ” – a Canadian blog by GJPaul
    http://gjpaul.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/the-world-divides/

    Posted by Gregory | 8 January, 2014, 1:27 pm
    • Todays update on my post ” Rebuke of Protestant Faiths ”

      ( St. Mathew warns of the era before Jesus returns unto the earth, the Apacalypse and rebirth, citing Love for one another will wax cold, and many will speak against Love, and false prophets will mislead from Love and Jesus…. this is to be the time all christians faith in Jesus, and God’s Love, will be tried … MAKE yourselves READY TODAY and EVERYDAY… ONLY from Love are you, ONLY with Love can we overcome the grievous and cruel ills of the earth, and ONLY by God’s Love is Jesus born and our lives will given understanding and mercy, and forgiveness… REMEMBER, Jesus is bonded to Love by His crucifiction, and none will ever disHearten Jesus. )

      Posted by gjpaul | 12 January, 2014, 12:32 am
      • When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed (Revelation 6:9-11).

        As Jesus Christ opens the fifth seal, He comforts His faithful martyrs who have joined the Church in Heaven; telling them that many faithful servants would follow them into Heaven through great tribulation and various types of martyrdom. This great tribulation of the Church begins in Rome with the martyring of many saints, including Saints Peter and Paul. The evil emperor Nero’s persecutions in Rome corresponds to the time the Roman legions are gathering for the siege of Jerusalem. The Lord warns his followers that these events would signal the beginning of a great tribulation that would continue until His Second Coming: “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant
        and to those with nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:15-22).” The notation to understand in the first sentence, is there because this Scripture like the one that our Lord is referring to, Daniel 9:26-27 (see vision four), continues to be misunderstood by many. The abomination is the Romans who represent Satan’s dominion. The desolation is the coming destruction of Jerusalem and its temple. The holy place is the site where our Lord was Crucified and Resurrected, located outside the walls of the city. When the Roman Legions withdrew for a brief period of time following the death of Nero in A.D. 68, the faithful heeded the warning and escaped the holocaust that ended the lives of untold thousands.

        Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days (Rev. 12:6).

        The woman is true Israel, God’s Church. The wilderness is beyond the Jordan River. The Lord’s preservation of His Church, beginning with the three-and-a-half year judgment of the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea, will continue throughout the great tribulation: “I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18).”

        The history of the Church is truly the story of the faithful enduring great tribulation: terrible persecutions by the Romans endured until 313; continuous tribulations of heresy and schism overcome by selfless love, conciliar episcopal leadership, and faithfulness to Holy Apostolic Tradition; continuous persecutions by the Islamic powers, endured since the seventh century; and persecutions by the apostate sectarian powers that arose after the great schism of 1054. This tragic falling away, precipitated by papal pretensions, gave rise to ever increasing sectarianism (see II Thes. 2:1-7). Sectarian conflicts eventually led to the atheistic ideologies of Communism and Nazism, martyring more Christians since 1917 than in all the preceding centuries of the Church age. We have lived for over fifty years in the shadow of an earth destroying nuclear holocaust that grows more probable as nuclear weapon technology proliferates. This reality brings weight to our Lord’s words of shortening the time; before the destruction of “all flesh.”

        Posted by Marc | 12 January, 2014, 2:56 am
  5. I appreciate you effort to offer your opinions on this subject, but I rather think needing a phD in theology to guess-estimate what revelation is saying is far over my head, no matter there’s centuries of scholars attempts to decipher the book. One may claim Jesus gives some such an understanding, though I haven’t as yet read of any credible explanation.

    Don’t you think, if God would have this message offered onto all peoples of the earth, God would have made it comprehensible. I’ll stay with the simpler things my average mind can somewhat understand… the Gospels.

    Posted by GJPaul | 14 January, 2014, 4:19 am
    • Actually Gregory, Revelation is pretty simple if you are willing to consider a few things. The first four chapters consist of an introduction and messages to seven Churches in Asia Minor. Because seven is symbolic for completeness, the messages are given to the Church Catholic (complete). The scroll that enters in the fourth chapter of Revelation is the Bible. The first seal reveals the creation and the dominion given to Adam and Eve. The second through the fourth seal represent the effects of the fall; death by murder and war, death by famine and sickness, and death by a hostile environment, affecting all of the human beings who live on 25% of the earth’s surface. The fifth seal if focused on the experience of the Church since A.D.33 until today. The sixth and seventh seal have yet to be broken, so the prophecies are subject to conjecture because they await fulfillment.

      Posted by Marc | 14 January, 2014, 7:12 pm
  6. Lol this thread almost has an incestuous bond. Let’s all say aaah for the Christians, all 40,000 denominations.

    My goodness, and Marc is off on his usual kaleidoscope of seemingly Acid Induced Eastern Orthodox mental masturbation. trip .
    All that crap about persecution and Nero. Where do you get this stuff from?

    Try reading Gibbon.

    Jesus would have laughed his head off. Or fallen off those stepping stones he used when crossing Lake Tiberias.
    (Gailee to you lot)

    Posted by Arkenaten | 14 January, 2014, 5:03 pm
    • As the moon approaches fulness, Ark rises out of his self induced stupor to hurl bolts of silliness. I sure hope he will revise the worn out talking points he received from his inculcation by the gurus of the the “new atheists” he worships. If you want to be taken seriously Ark, why don’t you drop the mummy BS and at least use a real name like Nate and John.

      Posted by Marc | 14 January, 2014, 6:17 pm
      • I thought you weren’t going to engage me on “any blog” any more?

        Lol…you Crispyuns are all the same.

        You remind me of the English in the days of colonialism who seemed to live by the maxim that, if you shout at the natives loudly and enunciate every syllable they are bound to understand The Queen’s English sooner or later.

        You are all such very silly people 🙂

        Posted by Arkenaten | 15 January, 2014, 6:49 am
        • It is not possible to engage in meaningful conversation with a recording of new atheist talking points represented by a brain dead mummy.

          Posted by Marc | 15 January, 2014, 10:27 am
          • So, shall we two merely continue to engage in meaningless conversation?

            Posted by Arkenaten | 15 January, 2014, 10:44 am
            • How can we have a useful conversation when we are so far apart in our cosmic views?

              Posted by Marc | 15 January, 2014, 11:17 am
              • Find common ground based on falsifiable evidence?

                Or you could demonstrate the archaeological and/or historical basis that you believe Jesus of Nazareth is a god?

                Posted by Arkenaten | 15 January, 2014, 11:32 am
              • As more scientists reject the current prevailing model of origins because of its lack of falsifiable evidence, perhaps new models based on greater falsifiable evidence will give enough weight to the intelligent design model to move many current atheists to embrace deism. We are not there yet, so I don’t see this as a basis for a meaningful discussion about the purpose of our lives.

                Regarding the archaeological findings and historical records, we have demonstrated in our past exchanges how subjective these resources can be. You give great weight to the lack of archaeological findings, while I tend to see the needle in the haystack reality. You totally reject the Scriptures as a reliable source of historical information, while I give them considerable weight even though I reject Biblical inerrancy.

                Posted by Marc | 15 January, 2014, 12:36 pm
              • Ark, Maybe our common ground is something as simple as a movie. Have you ever watched “The Wind and the Lion?”

                Posted by Marc | 15 January, 2014, 9:21 pm
              • As more scientists reject the current prevailing model of origins because of its lack of falsifiable evidence, perhaps new models based on greater falsifiable evidence will give enough weight to the intelligent design model to move many current atheists to embrace deism. We are not there yet, so I don’t see this as a basis for a meaningful discussion about the purpose of our lives.

                Citation, or is this yet another shot in the dark for apologetics and ID?

                Regarding the archaeological findings and historical records, we have demonstrated in our past exchanges how subjective these resources can be. You give great weight to the lack of archaeological findings, while I tend to see the needle in the haystack reality. You totally reject the Scriptures as a reliable source of historical information, while I give them considerable weight even though I reject Biblical inerrancy.

                The bible is not a reliable source of (accurate) historical information.
                Its main aim is to convey a theological message, thus facts are of secondary consideration.

                There is no verifiable evidence for the central characters of the biblical tale Old and New and when one claim can be shown to be fallacious why should one afford any credence to the rest of such claims?

                The call that one shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater becomes farcical in light of the myriad on nonsensical biblical claims, not least that it is the (inspired) divine word of your god.

                And no, I have not seen the movie you mention. Should I hire it? Is there relevance or is it merely a good film?

                Posted by Arkenaten | 22 January, 2014, 7:19 am
              • I find the film to very entertaining because it is set in North Africa a few years before WW1 and shows the clash of cultures and religions (American vs European, and Muslim vs Christian), and has a lot of action, good cinematography, music, and dry humor. Let me know what you think, if you decide to rent it.

                Posted by Marc | 22 January, 2014, 11:46 am
              • Plus, it has Sean Connery, and a loverly rendition of that great American, Teddy “Bear” Roosevelt…

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 22 January, 2014, 12:35 pm
              • Did you like the movie Quack?

                Posted by Marc | 22 January, 2014, 7:16 pm
              • Yes I did. I thought it was fantastic.

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 22 January, 2014, 7:18 pm
              • I will be interested to get Ark’s take on it.

                Posted by Marc | 22 January, 2014, 7:39 pm
  7. Marc, I wonder. In the Gospels St Mathew’s Jesus warns ‘ the first shall be last and the last first’ . I understand this refers to the ‘ havers ‘, which suffer so many, and in the most severe of ways and degrees, from the ‘non-havers’, presumeably as they are more caring of others and much less harmful.

    True, not all havers, of say money, are so much harmful, and not all non-havers so much careful, yet I reason the prevailing attitude of non-havers is regret for this life, whilst havers like/luv it. I also expect non-havers also feel and care for the suffering of others, whilst havers only for themselves.

    The issue of the destiny of the havers is interesting. They will know/suffer death, yet for how long is relative to how much moral debt they have, and how long they can endure before they whole-Heartedly regret themselves and whole-Heartedly join Love.

    Any things you’d like to add ?

    Posted by Gregory | 14 January, 2014, 8:22 pm
    • Wow Gregory, you have hit upon the reality of life. The balance comes at the end of life.

      Posted by marc | 14 January, 2014, 9:54 pm
      • ” hit ” isn’t a word I’d use, a bit violent, more like reasoned. My insights derives from my arguements against christianity ( Some issues with Christianity ), where I refute eternal condemnation from only limited offence/moral debt.

        My ” place ” in healing the followship of Jesus, from both errors in scripture and falsehoods in faiths, is not certain, but becomes more believable to me as I continue to unravel and wash an ongoing number of problems in our knowledge of God and fellowship with Jesus. ( btw : Kelly, and olthers, I intend the term fellow to be gender equal/neutral )

        Posted by Gregory | 15 January, 2014, 12:51 pm
        • Hit was probably a poor choice of words Gregory. As to your well taken point about havers and non-havers, I think the story of the rich man and Lazarus found in the Gospel of Luke supports your point quite well. Although the nature of Hades changed when Jesus entered to preach the Gospel, the intermediate state remains one of illumination and purification for those who leave this life. Like you, I reject the concept of eternal torment.

          Posted by Marc | 15 January, 2014, 5:10 pm
  8. Marc and ducky, and anyone else, I want to ask your ideas and/or understanding of what Jesus intended us to do in terms of prisoners.

    Social science understands the criminal mind is often cultured by it’s human environment. The saying ” A soul whose ” stomach ” is full can more easily care for and give to others, but one who’s empty tends to be self-concerned “, and this sets their Heart and mind into the me-first attitude.

    I understand both the home and community environment’s lack of concern for others feelings, a violently brutal home, and community, dishonesty, stealing, vulgarity, bullying, usery, sexual assault, etc., characterize their ” schooling for crime ” .

    When Jesus asks we visit prisoners, and teaches ” the last shall be first… “, is it fair seriously harmful offenders be rewarded ? ( and from this issue of environment, virtually all criminal and anti-social offenders are included ; the ultra rich, organized crime, middle class drug dealers and rapists, etc. )

    ( recently, I listened to a story about a dance program being offered in some US prisons, ” Figures in Flight “, by dancer, and life-wise, Susan Slotnick. Though not of interest to most inmates, those which are made profound changes in their lives, and so, some in prisons have the foundations of true goodness. )

    I’m a little lost here, so, I’d like to ask your views.

    Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 3:48 am
    • Excellent question, Gregory. Prison ministries are absolutely worthwhile and encouraged by Christ. What better application of the Gospel and the message of salvation than through ministering to convicts?

      With regards to violent offenders, I don’t think we’re supposed to differentiate or judge the extent of their crimes. We are merely called to minister and share Christ’s unconditional love and forgiveness. Only through His love can they truly change from within and go on to lead productive lives. Ours is a God of second chances, no matter how grave or brutal the crime. Let the legal system (and ultimately God) be the judge. We have a chance to shine a light in the darkness where it is needed most.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 16 January, 2014, 6:15 am
      • Thanks quack, though Holy Jesus’s Love is not unconditional… Jesus requires/ask those he would help to believe in Him, and I understand that means in His messages of our Loving God, for our Love and Righteousness and Sacrifices… LAWFULNESS.

        As for forgiveness, this too is conditional upon regret and reform, in my opinion.

        Personally, I would not want to be alone with seriously dangerous offenders, nor do I have all that much good will for them, albeit I do understand the painful environment they were likely born into.

        Definitely, not an easy issue to get a ‘ grip on ‘ !

        Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 9:42 am
        • Okay, forgiveness is contingent upon confession, acknowledgement, repentance, and acceptance — leading to righteousness and birth of your spirit. But His love is absolute and unconditional. His love led me to believe.

          Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 16 January, 2014, 9:57 am
          • It seems to me ducky, what you’re saying with Jesus’s Love and forgiveness being absolute, is that ALL are ASSURED forgiveness. This effectively renders God’s will and Law meaningless and worthless, as now it no longer matters if one serves God’s will or not !

            I do believe life’s parental ” author ” , God, is purely and eternally Loving, but there must be consequences for those which unduly harm God’s livingkind. As I reason, the guilty are not forgiven, but must prove their wills have freely and fully conformed to Love’s values and virtues and behaviours.

            Jesus’s forgiveness is promised for they which whole-Heartedly try to be truely and consistantly Righteous, but that’s another complex issue : concern for feelings compete and confict with honesty and Truthfulness, among many other such dilemma’s.

            It’s unfortunate you didn’t read much on my blog… I’ve discussed, in detail, all these type concerns 😦

            Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 12:32 pm
          • I reason God never harms any life, but does deny its goods ( God being the sole resource of ALL life’s goods ) to offenders.

            Marc noted Jesus enters ” purgatory ” to offer a ” hand up ” to those captive their, but that’s not forgiveness, rather a light of good Love and Truth.

            ( Interesting I think, many years ago, whilst in my dreams, a Holy angel had hold of me and was leading me somewhere, and when I tried to free myself, the angels grip could not be loosed, but, there was no pain or suffering of its grip on my wrist. )

            Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 1:34 pm
        • In some ways it is easier to understand God’s love and forgiveness than it is how the human victims of crime must also forgive and be reconciled to the one’s who harmed them.

          Posted by Marc | 16 January, 2014, 11:47 am
          • Not certain what you intend to mean by ” human victims “, but once a soul is fulfilled, as is the works/purpose of Jesus, good will and mercy will prevail.

            If you intend here now on earth, well, my own mother’s husband was a cruel, mean drunker, and I have deep scars in my soul from years of his brutality.

            Years ago, after he had died, whilst I was ” in the mystic “, he appeared before my mind’s/Soul’s eye, but faceless, and in a black environment, yet wearing a green (irish) robe and golden medallion ( canada’s bronze cross for exceptional bravery in holland in WWII ). His image then dissappeared, and I said ” come back… that was ” , and at that very instant a ” beam ” of energy landed on my center forehead. I eventually fell asleep, but the next day noticed Grace was upon my Soul.

            Even with this, I continue to accuse and despise him, and know there’s 1,000’s of millions of others cruelly mistreated at home, just like me, though I cannot find to leave my grievances behind me. Every time I hear of or read a story of vioence and brutality against wives and children etc, my anger returns 😦

            Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 3:18 pm
            • Thanks for sharing this Gregory. My own father was addicted to alcohol and could be quite brutal. I strove to be a better father, yet I know I have not been the best. My father was a physician who saved many lives during WWII and continued to save lives and help folks until he died in 1971 at the age of 58. However he left deep wounds in his three children. I often wonder how my older brother who reposed in 2010 from copd, has dealt with the reunion with our father.

              Posted by Marc | 16 January, 2014, 6:01 pm
              • My Heart is with you Marc. Losing a loved-one is the deepest pain I know of.

                On tuesday a bleb in my left lung ruptured, and now I have a partially collapsed lung. My Dr told me to goto th ER and get an x-ray, but that’s just too difficult for me to do at this time. The info I have is small ruptured blebs will heal on their own, usually in a few days, but mine is a slower.

                To add to this, I’ve decided to put-down my younger cat charlie. He’s an aggressive male, and a terrible bully against my much older car moushie, and she’s 1/2 charlie’s size. I adopted charlie as a new-born kitten, so you see, I love him so much, but he’s stressing me every day and I suspect that’s why my bleb ruptured. I will no longer tolerate him hurting moushie, and I’m in money trouble from all the price and tax increases.

                My step father was not so much violent as he was critical and threatening, and his threats were the worst when he got drunk and he got drunk every week of his life. I clearly remember listening to him when came home after a couple hrs in the officers mess drinking. My body began to tremble as I entered a hyper-vigilant state, listening for signs how bad he was today. My younger brother, his son, was also a victim of his critical, narrow-minded, cold-Hearted irish conservative character.

                Interesting I think, opposites attract, and Heartful feminine women often prefer insensitive males, insecure males prefer dominating females, and the same generally holds true for gays and lesbians. As you may understand, I very more relate to my mother’s attitudes and perspectives.

                Posted by Gregory | 16 January, 2014, 11:40 pm
  9. Well, I got to emergency on friday and stayed until saturday noon, and what a slow process in was. NO bleb, but a bulla in my left lung, though the ER Dr didn’t think any analysis of the bleb, where exactly it is, how big it is, etc. was necessary. ( Sooo, I phoned my lung Dr and asked he get the x-ray and give me a full analysis, and me a hard-copy for my records. )

    As we believe Jesus was born with the body of a man, and with the soul of His (imperfect) mother and Soul of God, its necessary we understand Jesus was similar to God ; similar to God’s Virtue, God’s Love and God’s Truth, but NOT equal.

    Jesus NEVER was, no ever could be, morally pure/perfect ; All Jesus knew, all His virtue, and all His powers, were GIVEN to Him by God, Lifes Pure Loving Goodness, and the eternal being and provider of ALL good ” things “.

    Mose’s 10 commandments tells us we need hold no other before God, and there is ONLY 1 Supreme Life in all the cosmic realities.

    Posted by Gregory | 24 January, 2014, 2:56 am
  10. Interesting I think, virtually all christian faiths assert they most understand God and Jesus, yet there remains dramatic differences in their views and attitudes and they cannot all be right ! Although the holy bible is deemed a ” living ” guidance for humankind, this doesn’t exempt any interpretators from their responsibilities for Truth, and Love and Mercy.

    btw : I changed my blog theme to 2012, and have begun updating my post contents.

    Posted by Gregory | 24 January, 2014, 3:34 am
    • I believe the dramatic differences in views stems from the rejection of the authority of the conciliar Church. Everyone wants to be their own “pope.”

      I will revisit your blog today Gregory.

      Posted by Marc | 24 January, 2014, 9:56 am
  11. Marc, I’d like to know a bit about your education… you’ve quite alot of knowledge concerning some churches and faith. And, do you run a blog… whats it’s URL?

    Could you tell me what resolution was decided on, by at least one organisation, for Jesus’s imperfect status.

    Here’s more, though I expect you already know this.

    The spanish borgian (Rodrigo Borgia) Pope Alexander the Sixth, of the Roman Catholic Church in the later 15th century, was deeply entrenched in his absolute violent tyranny, insatiable greeds of wealth and lascivious sexual debauchery. The causes of these evils is deemed to be the inherently self-sickening meanings of sexual celibacy and abstinance when our sexuality is the core value of all cosmic life ; the being of being and non-being, each intimately bonded to and in need of each other. ( See my ” My Theory of Universe ” )

    ( Even so, sexual abstinence seriously sickens our mental and emotional health, and this is why christian clergy, both male and female, are found guilty of serious sexual exploitation of children and adults, including severe violence, reckless drunkery, ugly profanity, and such. )

    Posted by Gregory | 24 January, 2014, 8:04 pm
    • Gregory, After my time in the military, I trained as a surgical technician, was a pre-med biology major for awhile, and ended up in business classes after going to work in the medical device industry over 35 years ago.

      I am not nearly as creative as you and Quack, so I have not even considered starting a blog. I am probably too narrow in mind and lazy to make much of go of it.

      What ever useful knowledge I have absorbed regarding churches and faith has come from first hand experience and a fair amount of time researching the history of Christianity. Like most students in public schools and universities, all of the history I was ever taught about Western civilization claimed that the Roman Empire ended in AD. 476, and that the Roman Catholic Church was the sole Christian Church until the Reformation. When I looked into this history in more depth, I found out that the Roman Empire lasted until AD. 1453, and the Roman Catholic Church had its founding in the late eighth and early ninth Century. The Roman Catholic Church officially disassociated itself from the family of Orthodox Catholic Churches in AD. 1054 primarily because of the issue of Church government. The Eastern Churches rejected papal claims of supreme authority, and opted to continue the conciliar model of Church government established by the Apostles at the first council of Jerusalem in c. AD. 50.

      Although the family of Eastern Orthodox Churches have acquired some questionable baggage over the centuries, they have maintained the Holy Apostolic Tradition that provides a reliable criteria for sorting out a lot of errors. The approach of the early Church leaders was to use an apophatic approach to theological questions. If you eliminate the concepts that are clearly not true, you draw closer to understanding what is true.

      Although monasticism was a movement by the faithful to maintain the integrity of the Faith after the Edict of Milan in AD. 313, The perverse concepts about sexuality introduced by Augustine and other Latin speakers, had far more acceptance in the West than in the Greek speaking East. Most Orthodox Christian priests are married, although Orthodox bishops have been subject to celibacy due to nepotism issues that arose in the sixth century.

      Posted by Marc | 24 January, 2014, 9:40 pm
      • .If you eliminate the concepts that are clearly not true, you draw closer to understanding what is true.

        So, based on this criteria we should ditch the whole Trinity and the Resurrection because they are both man-made and clearly a crock of u-know-what, right? Course they are.

        Smile…you lot should have let Marcion have a decent crack of the whip,instead of sending him packing and declaring him and his ‘bible’ heresy, but you had to have your whole Sin Package didn’t you? Silly people.

        Posted by Arkenaten | 25 January, 2014, 11:31 am
        • Well then we can certainly ditch the atheistic concept that the cosmos came into existence by itself. Nothing is further from the truth, and more silly than a person who believes such nonsense.

          Posted by Marc | 25 January, 2014, 11:42 am
          • What science does not know yet, it might well do n the future, but sure as hit smells it wont stoop to the level of the banal and state ”Goddidit! simply because it is too damn thick to investigate further than a grubby little rag of a book..

            I am busy reading a blog about one chaps exit from religion. You should too. It is right up your alley.

            Although, so far not one vegetarian T- Rex.

            http://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/nathan-pratts-journey-to-atheism/

            Posted by Arkenaten | 25 January, 2014, 11:46 am
            • Thanks for the link Ark. I have also read Nate Owen’s and Sabio’s stories as well, and find a lot in them that I identify with. I rejected “sola scriptura,” and Bible inerrancy, and the new earth creationism that goes along with them quite a while ago. I rejected the multiple corruptions of Roman Catholicism even earlier in my life. As an Orthodox Christian I retain the belief that God has revealed himself to us in His Creation, and in His Incarnation. The “good news” of the Gospel is that physical death in not the end of life, and that most people will accept the gift of eternal life. I suspect that whenever you do encounter your Creator, you along with both Nates and Sabio will choose to change your minds (repent) and accept eternal life

              Posted by Marc | 25 January, 2014, 2:52 pm
              • You believe in the Trinity. A Catholic Church construct. You believe in Jesus s god, another church construct. And you follow the bible….another church production, and the utter garbage of life after death…yes, folk, yet another church construct.

                Tell me kiddies, have you been naughty or nice, hmm?

                This first few hundred years, eh? What fun those Christians had.
                Sheesh…ol’ Constantine, Eusebius et al very busy little buggers back in the day, weren’t they, bless em all. All that stuff yto make up, how did they do it? More to the point how did they get away with it?

                The sword, mostly. Dead easy.

                And the first (official) schism in 1054, when the Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael
                Cerulariaus (Eastern Church) and Cardinal Humbert (Western or Roman Catholic
                church) excommunicated each other over church policy.
                That’s the version you believe in right? Slightly different nonsense but much better hats.

                Oh, what laughs, hey? Such high jinx.

                Yes, good ol Christianity.
                Why not tell the god, God – to eff off? Nothing will happen as he does not exist…unless you are a believer of course.
                Lol….

                Posted by Arkenaten | 25 January, 2014, 3:10 pm
              • If you still feel that life after death is utter garbage when you come before your Creator, you can rest assured that He will not force eternal life upon you. I believe it was C.S. Lewis that opined, “In the end there are only two kinds of people, those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ‘thy will be done.'”

                Posted by Marc | 25 January, 2014, 3:41 pm
  12. Well ark, reason and faith being what they are, and atheist’s positions being what they are, it becomes a ” wait and see ” thing.

    If we of faith, and some commitments, and efforts, to be Loving and giving to ALL in this life, are right, I reason all moral debts must be resolved, which certainly includes those of christians. Resolving those debts may involve God denying life’s goods to those until they whole-Heartedly regret themselves, and reform their souls.

    ( my premise is God is pure and eternal Goodness, from which ALL Goods derive and are provided to all livingklind, where so ever they may reside in the infinite cosmos and finite material constructs, aka universes. ( an infinite resource can host an infinite number of sub-constructs ))

    If atheists are right, this world’s capitalists will darken the skies, kill much of the animal and plant life on earth, and install a techno-society under their absolute rule.

    So I ask you, with good-will for you, is a Loving and humane ruler, God, not the wiser opinion ?

    Posted by Gregory | 26 January, 2014, 12:17 am
    • Muslims believe the same, in principle.
      You both assume this deity is real and yet never offer any evidence to back such spurious claims. And as for this line….

      So I ask you, with good-will for you, is a Loving and humane ruler, God, not the wiser opinion ?

      This is the same arsehole that , flooded the world, ordered the annihilation of Canaan, encourtsaged incest, an more crimes against humanity that i can be bothered to recite.

      Now, tell me once again, why I should worship this deity?

      Posted by Arkenaten | 26 January, 2014, 2:24 pm
  13. If you still feel that life after death is utter garbage when you come before your Creator,…

    And you cannot see why this statement makes you such a plonker. If I don’t believe in an afterlife why on earth do you think I would even consider a creator deity? And even then, why would I consider the one you genuflect to, who is a murdering genocidal capricious son of a bitch?

    Posted by Arkenaten | 26 January, 2014, 2:28 pm
    • I have no reason to believe that you would ever consider an afterlife or a creator deity while you live on this earth Ark. You have made that quite clear even to a plonker like me.

      However, when you leave this earth and enter the spiritual realm, your perspective on these matters will likely change. Even you are a work in progress that the Creator is not finished with.

      Posted by Marc | 26 January, 2014, 3:33 pm
      • This is the bullshit of faith. Espousing stuff you have no knowledge of merely to appease your ignorance.

        ”Spiritual realm”…oh, the gods..the arrogance that you espouse. Tell me Marc, how do you know? Truly, I want to know.

        Make my spirit a double Glen Fiddich on the rocks please…

        Posted by Arkenaten | 26 January, 2014, 3:42 pm
        • I prefer Glenlivet but if you are providing the liquid spirits Ark, I would be happy to drink your brand.

          When it come to non liquid spirits, you don’t appear to be happy with anyone’s brand.

          If knowledge is limited to empirical measurement of physical realities, then one can never know anything about what may exist outside of time/space. Yet knowledge does have other relational dimensions. I know more about my family and friends than just to recognize them physically.

          Your association of bullshit with faith is certainly warranted. Yet is all faith mere bullshit? To develop a model based on the observations of effects, when the cause is not measurable, requires faith. My model appeases my ignorance in the same way your model appeases your ignorance.

          If I am arrogant Ark, then so are you. Enjoy your double while I go pour a few fingers.

          Posted by Marc | 26 January, 2014, 4:28 pm
          • But your more arrogant with knobs on plus infinity because you have a big sky daddy to hide behind.

            Posted by Arkenaten | 26 January, 2014, 5:50 pm
            • Come on Ark, I don’t hide behind my big sky daddy. I am too fat to hide behind anything other than a battleship.

              My sky daddy is not the prick you think he is. He is a very good daddy who puts up with a lot of shit from His kids.

              What ever happens to His kids in this life, He helps them to understand their experiences when they get to the spiritual realm. Like a good daddy, He sustains the lives of His children and want them all to live up to their potential.

              Posted by Marc | 26 January, 2014, 6:14 pm
            • We see what you cannot, comprehend what you cannot. We have a right to be arrogant.

              It’s like the rich brothers who live in a mansion and drive around in Bentleys, while the other brothers live on the street chasing their next fix. All because they either accepted or rejected their father’s rich inheritance…

              Wanker.

              Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 26 January, 2014, 7:13 pm
              • Thanks, Quack. You the man!

                Posted by Marc | 26 January, 2014, 7:33 pm
              • Now, is the same egotistical ”father’ that puts such a high price on this purported ”inheritance”, Quack?
                The same ‘father’ that is so capricious if you piss him off he might just annihilate the whole planet in a fit of pique…again?
                The same father that has such an inferiority complex he has to insist on Laws ripped off from earlier cultures that include an injunction against any other god?

                The same ”father” that proved to be so utterly incompetent he was forced to manifest ( a third time) by knocking up a 14 year old Jewish girl as a human merely to make a point and then allow himself to be crucified because he was so chuffing thick that blood sacrifice was the only way to he believed would convince the natives of how naughty they were….again.

                And when this didn’t work, he chuffed off in another temper allowing the Romans to pick up the pieces, ditch the Jewishness, invent a religion based on a dubious, possibly fictitious character called ”Paul” and export it across the globe via the sword?

                And you believe this is not only normal, but wholly worthy of rational consideration, even though there are several billion other humans who consider Christians and their effed up worldview/religion are deserving of nothing but scorn and ridicule – and this is the charitable option.

                Wankers indeed…!!

                Posted by Arkenaten | 27 January, 2014, 6:09 am
              • You just blew one heck of an intellectual fart.

                I don’t mean that as an insult. We all suffer from intercranial gas now and then. But no, what you describe sounds very much like someone who has no clue about what I’m talking about. And that’s perfectly okay. I shall educate you. As a knower of all things, my lot in life is to dewankify the wankers into a state of wanklessness.

                In order to make sense to each other, we must first break apart your suppositions and replace them with actualities. Only then can we converse intelligibly without resorting to innuendo and condescension along the lines of this response. You’re an intelligent man, Ark. I’ve read your writings on other matters, your novel, and so forth. So I don’t doubt you’re capable of grasping a deeper understanding here, rather than ridicule something you seem to know nothing about. And you can’t tell me you have no interest or concern in learning about it, since you seem crazily obsessed with “the religious” and those who espouse “religiosity”. I am not, nor have I ever, nor not never nohow, considered myself religious. I seek truth, just as you. So I suppose we are both equally religious, if that’s how you wish to define me, since you claim to seek “rational” understandings of “the universe,” “life,” or whatever this is.

                Nevertheless, as always, I appreciate your elaborations and interest here. Especially the insults and witticisms. My blog would be completely boring without it!

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 4:08 pm
              • The irony, of course, is that while you deny any religiosity you would have no basis for belief whatsoever if it were not for the church that made up/compiled the bible.

                Even then, they were reluctant to commit to paper much of the stuff but felt compelled as Marcion had already got the jump on the Boys from Rome.
                And as Constantine was prodding them i the back they sort of were forced to get their arses into gear.

                Anyone who claims they are not religious and merely follows the “Teaching of Jesus” ought to understand a LOT more about the compilation of the bible before they espouse such nonsense.

                Posted by Arkenaten | 27 January, 2014, 4:17 pm
              • One thing I will agree with you on, is you don’t get to claim Jesus without claiming the rest, so to speak. I’ve never shied away from that. You don’t get the NT without the OT. A “Christian,” in essence, is merely a Messianic Jew by faith. I at least try to be consistent and “intellectually honest.”

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 4:40 pm
              • Then maybe you ought to acknowledge that there is really no such thing as a ”Christian” but rather confess to Paulism.

                Jesus was born and raised a Jew.
                He taught the Law – Jewish Law: The Law of Moses.

                He would have laughed at Paul right in his face.

                Paul ( or the character as described in the bible) was likely a fraud and Christianity is based in his doctrine…not anything Jesus stood for.

                Posted by Arkenaten | 27 January, 2014, 4:45 pm
              • And there goes the train, off the tracks once again. (Mag-lev trains are so much safer an efficient. They can easily hit speeds over 200 mph without ever having derailment issues…)

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 4:57 pm
              • Why, do you object to this argument?

                Historical Truth and Christianity are such odd bedfellows and one or the other is always stealing the covers.

                Posted by Arkenaten | 27 January, 2014, 5:02 pm
              • Without the meticulous record-keeping and literary preservation by Christian monks during the Dark Ages, our histories and knowledge of the ancient world would be lost.

                Keep in mind, the Roman system of suppression and control shifted from Rome to the Vatican soon after the fall of the Western Empire. What you consider “the Christian Church” and “Christianity” could not have been further from the truth — mathematically, we would represent it this way: (Vatican)=[1 / (Christianity)]

                The Romans took Christianity and “Romanized” it, just as they did when they Romanized the traditional Greek hero myths, turning each into a makeover of the old Babylonian polytheistic state-controlled political system. This reign of terror lasted until the Reformation and the Renaissance, when all the old knowledge could finally be brought out of hiding.

                Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 6:20 pm
              • Ark – perhaps your capacity to discern the historical truth is not as reliable as you think it is. You have displayed a fair amount of ignorance regarding the historical record regarding the early Church. You keep coming back to Marcion and the Church in Rome, yet you seem to be ignorant about what really transpired after the Edict of Milan in AD. 313.

                Posted by Marc | 27 January, 2014, 6:18 pm
  14. Marcion was a heretic and probable gnostic. Constantine would not have embraced the Christian faith if his Mother Helena had not already done so. The years between Constantine and Theodosius were transitional. We go from the elimination of persecutions of Christian with the Edicts of Milan under Constantine in AD. 313, to the declaration by Theodosius that Christianity is the official religion of the Roman Empire in the late forth century AD. The decrees of Theodosius led to increased monasticism to offset the Church/State problems.

    Posted by Marc | 27 January, 2014, 6:38 pm
  15. Constantine would not have embraced the Christian faith if his Mother Helena had not already done so.

    Citation, please?

    Once Christianity was pronounced the state religion Christian persecution, for what there was diminished, yet the Roman embracing of the Christian faith opened the flood gates to persecute all other non-Christian religions and also those branches of the Faith that fell outside the edict.

    Marcion had it spot on with his ‘bible’and the numbers who followed him must have made the Roman Church crap its pants But they realised how much control they would lose if the Old Testament was kicked into touch. No sin doctrine for a starter, and no prophecy. Well we couldn’t have that could we, so the Bishop had his money refunded and he was effectively told to eff off.

    All this is smokescreen and does not in any way diminish the falsity of the Church’s position, in that they commandeered Saul ‘(if the character was not a complete fabrication) and used his doctrine for political ends.
    Those that think they follow Jesus do not. The Christian doctrine is merely whitewashed anti-Semitic and Pauline to the roots of its delusional possibly epileptic narrative founder.
    The Law of Moses was steamrolled in favour of Roman Politics.
    Deal with it.

    Posted by Arkenaten | 27 January, 2014, 6:59 pm
    • I thought you were going to bed.

      Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 7:10 pm
    • Ark – Please provide citation on your distorted views of Marcion and the early Church. You get yourself so excited about issues that have no basis in fact. Your ignorance about the early Church is almost baptist. You are far to smart to really believe the bullshit that you are spreading. Please take your meds and revisited reality in the morning.

      Posted by Marc | 27 January, 2014, 10:26 pm
      • Alright now, Marc. Lay off the Arkster. He just got banned from another blog today…

        Posted by Quackzalcoatl | 27 January, 2014, 10:59 pm
      • Ah..you think Marcion was simply a naughty heretic do you?
        Smile…the inculcation of the religious. Oh dear.
        Start by picking up a simple encyclopedia. This is your homework assignment for the week.

        learn to open your mind a little and stop pandering to the indoctrination of faith.

        Faith is not reliant on evidence, and as you are a believer in a sky daddy why should I bother try to dissuade you from this delusion?

        If you are truly interested in truth and enlightenment rather than simply obstreperous discourse then you will suspend faith for now and go in search of truth and hard evidence rather than the spurious indoctrination you have been subject to most of your life.

        Posted by Arkenaten | 28 January, 2014, 5:08 am
        • Ark – During my time between Protestant Christianity and Orthodox Christianity, I shared that I became a Deist.

          As hard as it is for your to believe, I actually did seek a broad range of sources to understand what the hell actually happened in the early Church history.

          The conciliar Church determined that Marcion was a heretic, long before the influence of the Roman state had any bearing.

          I am always interested in the truth Ark, but your use of the word “obstreperous” tells me that you and Arch are either in a relationship with the same gal, or that you are both just full of shit (see Arch’s explanation on Nate Owen’s blog).

          Posted by Marc | 28 January, 2014, 7:44 pm

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